URGENT ******please help don't know what to do********

[fransmom]

dd has been with xp overnight, during which time he has refused to answer my calls and it is left to his father to answer or dd is answering (she is 2.10 btw). to cut long story short, xp is now looking for houses to rent (or so he says) and i have said that i don't want dd to go with him as i don't think it is fair on her traipsing round houses all day. i also didn't want her to go because his newgf may or may not be going and i ddin't want dd confuised. only now, at 9 this morning he has sent a text saying he has taken her to view a house (in a genteel seaside resort)about an hours drive away. he has therefore gone against my wishes, i have been in contact with my sol's secretary but don't know what else to do. i have visions now of him tkaing her away and not bringing her back

agnesnitt

I know that.

What I'm asking is if the little girl is only with her dad for 2-3 hours, then the reason he is not answering the call is because it interupts what little time he has.

As someone who has been through a similar situation, we were told by a CAFCASS officer that during contact the other parent calling or on return, the other parent constantly asking questions, leads the child to believe that the parent calling has a problem with the contact and in term causes the child inner turmoil.

People should consider their children before their own insecurities, thats all i'm saying....agnes.

Katelyn

Katelyn it is a very fine balance though and something hard to achieve particularly in the first year or so of contact.

It is much easier in some ways from your perspective although no less valid. As a mother letting my kids go with a man capable of violence (and how has used violence in the past) and with a gf who has never had kids, doesnt understand them and whom they hate, it has been hard to never ring and check up on them.

I didnt ring but answered their calls of distress and was told off for doing so. There is no right or wrong in a clear cut way over this and frankly I wouldnt take the advice of many CAFCAS officers.

I think asking them about contact is also a difficult one and trying to be positive and saying I hope you had a lovely time and then listening if they didnt is part of the role of a parent with residency. When I have tried not talking to them about it they have been even more suspicious. As I said getting it right is very very hard and we are all human and make mistakes.

glitterfairy

There is no right and wrong but if you're talking about 'rights' - surely he as the bological father has rights too??

The first few years will be hurdle after hurdle, it will get easier.

Katelyn

No parent has rights nowadays, they have responsibilities. Children are not owned and no one has the right to see them or have them with them, that is why it is called residency and not custody. Only the children have rights by law.

You are quite right there are often rights and wrongs on both sides, but in my experience the ones coping with the majority of childcare, financial burdens and stress are the women and they often have to hide or mask real feelings of abandonment and grief in order to do so.

Fransmom how are you now?

glitterfairy

You're very right. children do have rights....rights to time with mum and just an equally time with Dad.

Neither time should be dictated by the other parent. Unless of course, we're not talking about a very basic seperation. Obviously it goes without saying that if violence etc has been involved then my opinion varies somewhat.

Of course and the views of the children (should they be old enough) need to be taken into consideration. All too often this is not the case and the adults concerned simply describe what it is they want and what they think they are entitled to.

Even where violence is concerned the views of the children are not always listened to which is quite shocking.

Fransmom are you still around?

I agree but in this particular case, all that is mentioned is 'i have fears of him taking her away'. I was trying to establish, as were a few other members; were these fears granted, i.e. was there a history of something we don't know about or were these the normal fears of a woman, fairly new to seperation and were they due to her own insecurity surround contact. Of course the childs views should be taken into account but on this occasion the child is 2years old and as parents after our childrens best interest needs to make decisions for them at this age. If daddy has done nothing wrong, merely seperated from his daughters mother, he should be allowed the same quality time with his daughter as mum gets.

If he's a perfectly acceptable father, as is she a mother, then whilst I agree that her 'thoughts' should be taken into account, she on the other hand needs to step back and respect his time with his daughter is 'his' time and he should be dictated to about what he should and should not be doing during his contact with his daughter.

fransmom, I wish you the best of luck and fear that this is going to be (in the words of the judge to my husbands ex) 'an uphill struggle' for you.

Put yourself in his shoes. How would you react if he phoned you constantly when you have your daughter? You'd likely change your number after a while or accuse him of harassment. How would you feel if he told you he didn't think you should take her with you shopping, traipsing round those boring shops. And what would you say to him if he said you can't introduce her to a bf under any circumstances? You are interfering in his life, if he did it to you you would tell him to take a running jump i would think.

He is her dad. It is very hard i know but you have to trust him to take care of her, just like he has to trust you. What he does with her in his own time is none of your business as long as she is safe and well looked after. And who he introduces her too is the same thing. You don't have complete control over everything, nor should you. You are joint parents and that means he has the responsibilities while she is with him and you have while she is with you. You would not be happy having to answer to him for every decision you made down to where you take her and who she can see. So try and understand that by demanding this of him you are alienating him and basically saying you don't believe he can take of his own daughter.

It is perfectly natural for you to be concerned and worried etc, just like you are the first day they go school, or you leave them with a babysitter. But you have to find ways to cope with it. Distract yourself.

Yes she is little and she's your precious. But how do you think he feels when she isn't with him? And he sees her far less than you do I would imagine.

He is capable of looking after her needs and i'm sure he loves her very much and wouldn't let any harm come to her intentionally.

Also having a child means having them there whatever the situation. He can't just do fun things with her, sometimes more everyday mundane things have to be done, and children have to tag along. That is the realities of being a parent.

I think probably the worst thing is thinking that she might not miss you, plus thinking this other woman might be taking your place. I have been that other woman and have seen the jealous distructive effects on a mother who thinks she is somehow being replaced, and a grandmother who is fed a load of bs and follows and attacks both dad and his new gf in the street in front of a screaming upset child as a result. Don't become one of those over protective, crazy women who insist on complete control. You'll only drive yourself mad with worry.

Try and be confident, you are her mum, noone else could ever take your place no matter what. And try and relax and trust him a little to tske care of a child who is his daughter just as much as she is yours.

See if you can agree phone contact while she is with him for your own peace of mind, but expect to do the same in return. Writing is much easier and avoids conflict and upset because he won't answer and by the time he does you're already stressed and worried. And try and find something to do to take your mind of it all. It will get easier with time and distractions.

I know it's a really hard thing, but you have to accept it and you have to try and find ways to deal with it. For example come here for support when it gets too much rather than pestering him on the phone.

Take care and big hugs.
Gilly

Gillybean, I think you are being a tad harsh here.

Firstly introducing children to new partners should be something agreed between you both otherwise it can be done wrong and can never be undone. The damage that does is unbelievable. Also if you are newly split up and it is all difficult things like this are best left until people settle down a bit.

Patience is the only thing which really matters in these circumstances. Inpatient people keen to get on with their lives and neglectful of the feelings of their x either man or woman cause a lot of damage.

None of us are superhuman and none of us can hide our emotions all the time. When we are hurt the kids pick up on it. It is the responsibility of the x partner to try and make it as little hurtful as possible and to treat their x with some respect. Replacing someone within weeks and expecting the kids to be ok with that, introducing them as a gf when the kids have never met them before are all completely counter productive.

My X introduced his new gf as his wife to be to my three kids within 8 weeks of leaving and then after promising she would not be around let her jump out on them. They now hate the new gf and will never get used to her but I am sure that both him and his gf think it is my fault and I am over protective.

You are being judgemental imo when it is inappropriate as you do not know the circumstances which are in question. None of this is easy and as I have said we all make mistakes but patience and time will change things and rushing the introductions and forcing the pace of change without respect will never work.

To counter-act your situation glitterfairy, my husband left his ex wife in February 2006, in April 2006 the court made an order which ordered the ex wife to exclude herself from contact as she was insisting on being present and ordered the introduction of his new partner (me) to his daughter in a 'child friendly' way.

For clarity, his daughter and I have a fabulous relationship.

Not everyone situation is the same, as you say.

Katelyn

I didnt say it was Katelyn. I made it clear I was talking about my own experience. However I would argue that your X taking matters to court after such a little time, seems, or appears to have been pushing matters rather fast. In contrast the judge ordered my xs new gf not to have any contact with my kids for at least six months because they had made such a mess of things.

The x wife in question does sound as though she was making things extremely hard if not impossible but she may have been upset perhaps?

There are almost always two sides to these things and as I have said in the first months it is hard to see them both for everyone concerned.

My case is very different anyway as there was violence involved towards both me and my children. However my X has always denied it and said I made the kids say this and that despite my kids bruises and his gf would probably say it was all my fault if she was on here and around. She would believe everything he told her about me.

I have always been clear that what happens during contact (so long as they are safe) is entirely up to him including who they see. I also never interfere unless the kids ring crying or saying he has hurt them. Considering there has also been violence involved this has taken a herculean effort which has never been acknowledged by him.

Needless to say as the gf was pushed on them none of my kids like her and because of the additional violence my eldest two no longer see their father at all. that is not what I would ever have wanted and indeed I fought for his rights to see them in court when no contact at all was on the cards, but I know he blames me totally.

He had been given 1 hour per week with his ex wife present at all times due to her insecurity and wanting him back, so not fast at all. In going to court so quickly his daughter and he didnt miss out on too much contact.

The x in our situation was very similar in a sense, she would ask my partner not to take his daughter swimming, not to take her to the park due to a reoccurrent cold, not to buy her barbie due to other reasons....so the court simply said she was to exclude herself in contact with dad and child and i was to be introduced - best thing that ever happened as the little girl was so little that she has accepted me now as daddys wife.

When violence is involved, it's a completely different story but when a man has done nothing but be a good father - he should be allowed the contact he and child deserve without any limitations mum has.

God, he didn't wait long did he Katelyn?

Why did he press for a court order so soon after leaving? Did he meet you after leaving her or were you OW? Am genuinely interested.

And I am not judging here, just interested as I have been both cheated upon and OW.

HoweverI feel that it is very insensitive to rush these type of things I really do, from all angles esp the child's, regardless of age. And if you meet a man with kids you have to accept all his baggage which includes the ex partner and kids and possibly be prepared to hang around in the background for a while.

Imagine yourself in a situation a few years down the line where you may have to hand your child to your ex and a new GF.

In my own case my exH waited until he had been seeing someone for six months before he introduced her to the DCs with my full agreement.

Sorry if I have been blunt (am not usually) but you seem to be coming from things from a very one sided perspective.

Sorry bit of a cross-posting there. Some of my ? were answered.

I agree with katelyn and gillybean but would like to add, I doubt a child of that age knows what different relationships mean (other than mummy and daddy) and won't be aware what a girlfriend is. She will just be one of daddy's friends. I agree with older children it has to be handled differently

I would hate for my ex to dictate who I socialise with or where I go and I don't expect input on who or where he goes when it is his time. In a break up, we really should be trying to forget all the hurt to parent together the best way for the children.

citylover

What is OW??

I was seeing him for about 4-5 months when he left the family home. He had seperated from his then wife but obviously seeing his daughter was not an issue at the time he was living there. He left the home in Feb 06 and his wife would only allow him to see his daughter for 1 hour per sunday with her watching.

He didnt go to court to have me introduced. He went to court to have a contact order made but whilst being heard in court, the judge made an order for the ex to exclude herself from contact and for me to be introduced.

Very soon in hindsight but has been the best thing for all. Like I say, we have a fabulous relationship.

I am pregnant with my husbands child and althougth I wish to never be in this position, obviously we have discussed it. I am a fairly laid back person and having been cheated on myself also, feel that regardless of the circumstances, as long as he were a good dad and capable...i'd have to move on. If not for my childs sake, then for my own.

I guess when you have a baby, maternal instincts kick in, mothers would put themselves in front of a car to save their children. Of course, initially you're going to be concerned, as someone else has already said, like you are when they first go to school but you have to get over it and move on.

minorityrules

I was introduced to my Husbands daughter as his friend and she accepted it. It was only when we got married this year that she began to ask questions but has accepted it because i've been around for 2 years now - why wouldnt she?

It's a difficult one but like you say, a mother wouldnt expect to be dictated to about where she goes, who she goes with, what she does and i think all good fathers should be offered the same.

Glitterfairy in an ideal world we'd all agree and make joint decisions and be understanding. But this is the real world. If they could make these kind of decisions and compromises they'd probably still be together.

These is no mention of violence in the original posters message. It is her feelings and worries, all perfectly understandable as i stressed in my message.

But most of us would tell our ex to take a flying jump if they intruded on our time and made demands on what we should do with our child and who they could see. All i was saying is see it from his point of view and put yourself in his place and then she might view it differently.

She is not finding the time apart or the situation easy, and i was making suggestions on how to deal with that in finding ways to distract herself etc. If you think it's harsh to point out the other side and that dad's miss their children just as much as mum's then so be it. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are.

A lot of dad's put up with all kinds of false allegations and accusations of harrasment when they try and contact their ex asking after their children, and often have to go for 2 weeks or more between seeing their children. How is that any less painful than a mother not seeing her child for a few hours and worrying. To carry on phoning in this matter is not appropriate imo and could be seen as harrasment.

And I sympathised with that pain, it is understandable, very real, and undoubtably upsetting. But as a parent we have to learn to let go - when our child goes to school, when we seperate from our partner and they go and spend time with them, when we want an evening out and we leave them with a babysitter or grandparent. I still remember panicking like mad the first time i left my son, it was unbearable and i had to come home after less than 2 hours! He was of course fine with his grandparents. And then the first time he stayed overnight at a friends, i was phoning them to check he was ok, he was having fun and not missing me at all! How did i feel then!?

Being a mother doesn't make you the main or better or more caring parent by default. Plenty of fathers want to be involved and are kept at bay by ex's, mostly because they want control and can't cope and are thinking they'll loose maintenance money by allowing too much contact. I'm not saying that is the case here, not at all. But we have to learn to let go and deal with our feelings after seperation and remember our child has two parents. Yes it is painful and hard, but time and distracting yourself with other things can help.

Also it is not our ex's responsibility to ensure we are not hurt by their actions, to have any idea how we feel, and they certainly shouldn't tiptoe around us and not see their children just because we find it hard to deal with. Just as most of us wouldn't pander to our ex and couldn't care less about their feelings. What does matter though are the children. Yes a decent human being, if they have it pointed out to them, would act with a little more consideration. But these are people who have seperated recently for whatever reason. It is unlikely they can communicate easily or are being very understanding of each other right now. That is why i suggested she write explaining her side of it and giving him the chance to consider her points. He's not a mind reader. And her actions speak of an over protective mother unable to let go of her control, rather than someone trying to deal with their feelings on the matter and worrying about their child. Her message on the other hand does convey that.

Yes sometimes all we want is sympathy and validation of our actions, but that doesn't mean we'll get it from all if we post on a public forum. All opinions are valid and all sides of a situation should be explored. We all have different stories and situations and experiences to share here. Expressing different view points may help someone see things more clearly and find ways of dealing with it that work for them in their situation.

I'm sorry you feel i was harsh, i don't feel i was. Your situation is different to the one i was responding too. A violent ex and upset children would have got a different response from me.

Best wishes
Gilly

Gilly I agree once again with many of your points. However I do think we ask for people to move on and get over things sometimes long before they do. You made me laugh that if we all could talk things through we would still be together!

I dont think one it right to phone during contact (except for emergencies) as I have said and certainly that time is precious and should be made the most of by the other parent. I have views on the way this happens in my case and that of my kids and even without the violence I think my x does not make the always most of that time or concentrate on the kids themselves. However it is quite right that I dont interfere and it is their time.

My X does ask me for my suggestions around his problems over contact and I make a point of saying I wont make any, it is his time and he needs to form relationships. I never phone them either but my youngest takes her mobile in case she needs to come home suddenly (he chucks them out from time to time) or he frightens her. I do think it is hard for dads as often they have not formed the same relationships as mums and they have had their relationship mediated through the mother.

I was talking to my dad about this today and he said that when he split up with my mum we were angry and he had to live with that and take things at our pace. I now have a close relationship with him and not my mum at all. He always was there for us and very supportive and he saw us on our terms. It took many years though to form a brilliant relationship. I do think dads are important and I know that my eldest wants a dad just not the one she has. Luckily all three of mine are very close to my dad and he gives them that security.

Katelyn, as your husbands friend there should be no problem. That is quite different from being introduced as wife to be within 8 weeks or even gf. I did try at first with my Xs gf, because I had chucked him out because of his violence but the way she was pushed on the kids and they were forced to see her was a complete disaster. He literally told my kids in front of me that if they didnt accept her he would walk out of their lives forever.

In all of this we have not heard from fransmom and I wonder how she is doing?

i am fine thank you very much for asking and thank you for all your help, i do not have time today to go through and digest everythign that has been said - i think i shall need a notebook a4 pad to write notes as i go along to jog my non-existent poor memory. lol

i have realised that we both have to bite our tongues, i have mentioned to dd that daddy is with someone else now and she may meet her at some point and she said "great!", she seems to have taken it really well, i was really positive when i said it and because she seems older than her years, i had asked her what she thought about it. i have, however, also noticed that xp has told me to eat greens and to not intro dd to anyone and that he will also tell me things to try and make me jealous - but it doesn't work

please keep in touch it has been lovely hearing from both sides fo the story, so to speak, i really appreciate all the support that all you lovely people (i'm not sure if some dads have posted? ) have given me and it has enabled me to better bite my tongue. thanks xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

maybe i should have posted nonexistent

Fransmom, lovely to hear from you and thanks for the feedback. I do think this has been a really interesting discussion and there are two sides to most arguments.

Take care and am glad your dd is well and happy. You are being very strong. Come to the yurt for a day out any time by the way.

thanks for the invite gf xxx

What's the yurt? Sounds like it might be a yoghurt-hut, or am i just hungry and have food on the brain!? And are we all invited?