It all feels a bit surreal. Long-winded rant/vent about absent father.

[skyatnight]

Very long. Really just for my benefit, to get it off my chest.

I mentioned in another thread that I had spoken to xp for the first time in nearly two years. He finished with me when I was pregnant (planned) and is absent from dd's life.

She (nearly 3) has been asking about him consistently for the last few months. I am getting used to it but it is upsetting. I try to walk the fine line between blanking her (so that it (her 'Daddy') becomes a difficult secret) and raising futile expectations.

I emailed him a month ago, to let him know that she was asking for him. No reply. (He had said thank you for some photos I sent before Xmas.) I rang him a month later (last week). We had a superficially amicable chat about dd. He tells me that he is 'very busy, in a state of flux, thinking about changing his life altogether'. That 'yes, I read your email. I am still digesting it, blah, blah......' I am familiar with this. He is someone who on the one hand, is (not seems, is) very successful and impressive and credible, but, on the other hand, is a total selfish, immature wanker and narcissistic fantasist.

Dd has never met him (apart from when she was a week old). From time to time, he talks about having contact with her. I don't know why he does this because nothing ever comes of it. Perhaps it makes him feel better to pretend he cares. Perhaps he thinks it's good camouflage that I can't see through. Perhaps he is just playing for time and trying to keep me off his back in the meantime. I no longer pursue it with him, I just give him a prod once a year or so, in this case because it has come from dd.

Obviously I cannot make him care about her. It is interesting to see what the latest excuse is, though. Mostly it has been: 'She's never known me. She will never miss me.' 'She is too young.' Both valid in their own way. Now that she is older and is missing him (or rather a fantasy 'Daddy'), he is saying that he doesn't want to raise her expectations and then let her down. His exact words were something vague and slippery about: 'the risk of raising expectations which could not subsequently be fulfilled'.

He won't tell me what he means or what planet he is intending to move to that doesn't have telephones or some other way of getting in contact. I have tried to reassure him that she is being hurt by having no contact with him, so perhaps it is worth the risk of them seeing each other, even if it does at some point lead to disappointment?' (Ever so slightly sarcastic on my part!) Of course I am not sure that it is worth the risk because I know that the probability is about 1 out of 1.

So why am I even bothering? The usual reasons. Because he is her father. Because she is asking for him. Because I'm her mother and trying to do the best I can for her. Because I have no proof that he would hurt her and, until I know for sure either way, I have to carry on with this bizarre wild goose chase and pretend that it isn't futile. (And I suppose, I would just feel better if things ever improved). I know what you're going to say and, yes, I will give it up eventually, for everyone's sake. As it is, it is only a once a year exercise. I don't tell dd about it as it would be unfair to get her hopes up. I just say he is a long way away and very busy. It is very difficult, etc., - that kind of thing.

We spoke on the phone and I agreed I would leave it with him to think about some more(). Then he emailed me (wasn't expecting this). I was initially pleasantly surprised to see the email in my Inbox. Then, after reading it, I just felt depressed. He said he was still thinking about it (having contact) and would get in touch when he returns from holiday after Easter. He said the thing above about: 'the risk of raising expectations which could not subsequently be fulfilled' and asked again for my thoughts on this (he wants me to spill my guts to him (while giving nothing away in return) and then use it against me). All just more flannel to get him off the hook. The thing in the email that really depressed me was his question....

When I spoke to him on the phone, I had decided to risk it and get a little bit of satisfaction from letting him know that I knew he had a new job. I knew this would annoy him because he is very secretive and it would irritate him that I knew something that he thought I didn't know. A bit stalkerish on my part too - yes, I know, I shouldn't, but you have to take your pathetically minuscule fragments of satisfaction where you can. Basically, I had done a google search on his name last summer(something I occasionally, idly do) and found a press release announcing his appointment to the job.

Anyway his question in the email was how had I come to know about it / see the press release? I emailed back explaining that it was a google search. I suspect he thinks I have hired a private detective or something. Anyway, any satisfaction that I got from spooking him a little bit has gone. When I saw the email I thought maybe (like he always implies) he is thinking about being in contact with dd and that something would happen but the only reason he emailed really is because he wanted to know about how I saw the press release.

He likes to sound quite positive and concerned and lead me on into believing that he only wants the best for dd, that the only reason he is not having contact is because it might upset her. Reading between the lines of what he says, what he really means is: 'I am not going to admit that I want nothing to do with her. She is just my 'by-blow' (horrible term for illigitimate child) and I wish to pretend she doesn't exist. I am just going to keep flannelling you about it because, by not saying a definite 'no', I avoid any responsibility for this situation. It also allows me to continue slowly torturing you, as her mother, and there is sod all you can do about it. You must be stupid not to realise that I will never bother with her....

I am not stupid, and I do realise it is just an academic exercise. I will probably not contact or hear from him (he has also contacted me in the past) for another year or so (despite him saying he will call after Easter). I am upset that dd is asking for him but, other than that, I am becoming immune to the disappointment. I won't let it eat me up any more but, at the same time, I am not ready yet to let him off the hook completely.

He said something about it hurting dd if he got to know her and then couldn't continue seeing her. He said that he was thinking of moving and this might make things more difficult. I didn't ask where because I knew I wouldn't get a straight answer and it is not wise to show I care. Currently he pays child maintenance. I am now thinking that he plans to move away and not let me know the new address/phone number and stop paying maintenance. And that this was probably why he was spooked by my seeing the press release - even if it is not at all related. I don't see how I could trace him through his work, anyway. They wouldn't give me the details due to the data protection act.

Anyway, I've got no control over any of it. In many ways, it would be a relief if he would just say no, never, not ever going to have any contact. But he won't so we have to keep playing this game of charades. This is what I find surreal. I am quite a forthright person and, when I emailed him, I was quite blunt, in a polite sort of way, about the situation - that I am flogging a dead horse and I know I am flogging a dead horse but that it would be a nice surprise for me and dd, if I wasn't? I have even used those words. And, when I spoke to him, I more or less said that but he still continues pretending.

What is also surreal is that I am effectively begging and pleading with a man who betrayed me and subjected me to all kinds of emotional abuse. He told me he thought I was pathetic at the time but it is like I have gone beyond humiliation and indignity and despair. It is not about him and me any more. I have my new fragile dignity which is all about being the mother trying to do the best for her child. It almost works but when I hear his voice, it gives me flashbacks to that time. I am not a masochist but here I am begging and pleading with him to bother with dd. I am doing it in a calm and polite and distracted way as if we are talking about the weather. This play-acting is what is left after the realisation that he does not respond to emotion. I have tried all of that but he has no empathy or compassion. He does not care. He is made of stone. I can only fight him with polite disdain.

Knowing the above and still continuing with it, I suppose I am as bad as him. It is not that I cannot get on with my life, that I cannot 'move on'. Yes, I could/can. I am strong enough to cope with dd's requests for information about her 'Daddy'. I know I have years and years of dealing with this ahead of me. The reason I haven't completely given up and let him off the hook yet is partly for dd's sake. Yes, he would probably hurt her so why would I encourage that to happen? But it is still my duty to facilitate contact until it can be proven that he would hurt her. Or am I just being pedantic/perverse about this? The other reason that I don't give up is because I don't see why he should get away with it. I feel it is my duty to stick a little fork in him from time to time to remind him.

But he may have been planning his exit for a long time and may finally escape us, when he moves, and stop paying maintenance. I may have no choice but to give up. I have his mother's and brother's contact details (something which he doesn't know) but I have never met them and I probably won't pursue it as they may be as bad as him. He is also talking about giving up his job. The money has been useful but, in many ways, I would love to just tell him where to shove it and be completely independent. I may well do this soon, especially if he is planning to stop paying it anyway.

Time to get on with our life again, at least for now.

Thanks anybody who bothered to read it.

I can't let this slip off the board - what a nightmare .

My inclination would be not to pursue him any more, apart from maybe a Christmas card with photos in. That way, you can assure your dd in the future that you always left the door open to him. But I don't have any experience of this as an approach and would hope that someone who knows will be along shortly.

One thing that did strike me though was why you haven't made contact with his Mum/brother? They may be good people who would relish the chance to be involved with your dd - equally, they may not be, but I don't see you have anything to lose by contacting them (and possibly a lot to gain).

Good luck

What a tosser! Your dd is very lucky to have you.

Could you keep a record of all your attempts to contact him, so that when your dd is a teen, you can say I tried contacting him etc
in other words, prove to your dd that you are bending over backwards for contact and she will never, ever be angry or blame you.

zog's idea is good

not sure what to say to your dd now, there must be other lone parents in the same boat who can advise

Thanks for responding.

He is a tosser. I think I might be able to handle someone who was overtly abusive a bit better - less of a mindf&&k. He has been overtly abusive and threatening in the past but it was always preceded by a period of passive-aggressive controlling / ignoring / manipulating / undermining nastiness.

There is little communication between us but most of the recent stuff is emails which I do print out and keep in a folder in case my computer packs up and I can't restore it. My fear though, is that dd might find this folder before I want her to (and there is some of it that it would not help her to see). Not a problem at the moment because she can't read yet.

I haven't pursued the issue of contact with him for a couple of years but thought it might be worth a try as she is older now and asking for him. I may not have an address to send photos to much longer if he moves.

I haven't contacted his mother or brother as yet as I have been hoping that things might improve (that he might start showing an interest in dd). He does not get on with his mother, says she is controlling (!), and is jealous of his brother (klaxon-sounding and red flags - why didn't I twig about this being a bad sign when we were first together? I was so naive). But, like his relationship with me, they still seem to communicate with each other occasionally - expressed as frosty civility. They all sound as bad as each other. Creepy.

If he knew that I had contacted them (I haven't yet), he would go ape-shit - because he knows I know they don't get on, because it is a threat to his control of the situation if I bypass him, because it is, in a way, attacking him at his weakest point.

Much as I would like to upset him in his control-freakery, I would also find it distasteful. His mother would know how much he would hate me contacting her so, effectively it would be asking her to collude with me, and be disloyal to him, to speak to her about dd and for her not to tell him. I would not know if she would tell him. If she didn't tell him, I would find that weird (because they're family, aren't they? Your loyalty should be to your family.) And, if she does tell him, he will probably punish me and dd by stopping paying the maintenance. I often think that he pays the maintenance purely to have some control over me, something he can threaten me with if I get out of line (hassle him).

If I did contact his family, he would be livid, and, although I know it is already dead in the water, he might say that it is the reason he will never see dd - because I tried to interfere via his family. I don't want to give him the satisfaction of blaming me for his not seeing dd.

Contacting his family would be a last resort, a very strong weapon against him and I am holding it in reserve. They probably wouldn't want to know but he would hate me contacting them anyway.

As he doesn't know I have their details, I will keep my tinder dry about this until I know about whether he is going to disappear or not. If he does, I have nothing to lose.

(Do you see how I end up acting as deviously and perverse as he is? You end up having to fight like with like and it screws you up.)

The only charitable thing I ever manage to think about him is that he may actually realise what a nightmarish and useless father he would be and may wish to spare dd this. Who knows.

(No. It was more a case of that he knew I would have custody from birth as the mother and is not prepared to get involved in a project (fatherhood) where he can not have complete and utter CONTROL.)

Hi Skyatnight,
Sorry to hear all of this. Just for clarification - did he leave you for someone else or 'move on' to a new relationship really quickly? That would make his unwillingness to be involved a little more understandable (but far from ok).

He does sound very self-involved and immature.

Maybe it is better your daughter doesn't meet him if his disinterest is so deep - even at such a young age she might pick up on it. Heartbreaking situation for you and sorry I can't think of anything more helpful to say.

What makes you think he can stop paying just because he moves away? Do you get your money via the CSA? If he is working and has a P60 or tax return it is very easy for the CSA to calculate what he should pay and easier to make sure he does. You might not be able to get info from his employer, but the CSA can.

He is doing exactly what someone else suggested you do, he is making all the right noises and can say well i never said i wouldn't see her etc, and he can wave the emails around to prove he did all he could to keep in touch and never said he wouldn't when he was ready. He will never be ready. He has not bonded with this child and he is scared to be a parent.

Why is a three year old asking for her daddy? Has she started nursery or play school and something has made her think about her dad suddenly? Ask the staff there to help you out. They will have lots of books and stories about different kinds of families, and they can discuss this as part of their group if you tell them your daughter is having an issue over it.

If it is you that talks about her dad then you must stop doing that. He is not a long way away or busy, he simply doesn't want to visit and does not want to be a dad.

I think you should contact his mum. Your daughter is her grandchild. My son's father has nothing to do with him, but his mother has been fantastic and helped me out lots. Why should a grandparent be excluded and effectively punished for her son's behaviour? Does she even know about the child? Perhaps he told her you got rid of it, or that you refused to tell him where you moved to etc. You do not know why she hasn't been in touch with you, don't assume it is because she doesn't want to know too. Write a brief letter to his mum with photos. You might not be able to give your daughter a dad, but you may just be able to give her a wider family, and a grandmother. I did have to ask my sons Grammy not to write about his dad in her letters though as it caused confusion for my son andawkward questions. She would write about when he was little and things she used to do with him, and it was easy to skip over those bits when my son couldn't read, but now he can and he started talking about his dad and if he was here and how great it would be and can he write to him. I contacted him and asked him to reconsider, he answer was no.

So I know your pain, but the only way to deal with it is to let go. He probably thinks you are wanting him back which will make him keep his distance. Looking up his details on the internet will only add to that. And he is obviously scared about something. Suggest he gets councelling if he can not deal with it. Think about how silly and weak he is if he is scared of a three year old child. Do you want that kind of person as a role model and father to your daughter?

You can't force him to be a dad to your little girl, wonderful as she is and regardless of how much it hurts that he is rejecting your beautiful daughter and the disbelief that anyone could not want to know and love her I'm sure you must feel.

My son is now 9, and he has stopped asking for his dad since I explained to him that he has a father but that doesn't make him a dad, and that his father doesn't want to be here and won't make everything better for us. I also made it clear in that same conversation that he has a grandma & Grandpa and a grammy and auties and uncles and a mum who all love him very much indeed. It does affect him still though, and i can understand why you want him to be a dad so your daughter will have less hurt. But he does not want to and you can't make him.

My son wrote a letter to his penpal via school. They were replying to letters they got and his penpal had told him how he lived with his mum and dad and two brothers. My son replied that he had no brothers or sisters, and no dad, just a cousin. And i said to him what about me? What about your Grandma and Grandpa, what about all your auties and uncles, you have a big family and we all love you. Goodness only knows what his penpal thinks about this poor orphan and his single cousin.

Keep strong, and try and move on from this. Set him aside and it will be better for you and your daughter. If he comes knocking then open the door, but don't leave it open hoping for something that is unliekly to happen. And don't refuse his money just because you are angry and want rid. Your daughter deserves it and you can give her a lot with that money. If he stops paying and moves use the CSA. They might not be brilliant, and he might run, but he can't hide from them. Even if he goes abroad you can try the REMO route.

Move on and cut the dreams and fantasies of a daddy that will never be.
Try and keep strong for your little girl's sake, and for your own.
Gilly

No. He didn't leave me for someone else although there have probably been a few since me. His relationships don't tend to last. He is still looking for his 'perfect' woman (submissive doormat/masochist - preferably mute with no family and no outside interests / opinions). I remember him telling me that he would only settle down with someone really special (at the time he was telling me it was me and asking me to marry him). Sadly, he was 'mistaken' and, apparently, it 'happens' to him a lot.

AFAIK (?) I was the only one who was naive enough to let him impregnate me. He told me it was over shortly after I told him I was pregnant. He has since told me that he has a long history of encouraging women to become attached to him / dependent on him, promising them the world, isolating them from their friends and families, then leaving them high and dry. He didn't put it quite like that, of course. I think he is proud of it.

He had an affair with a married woman, got her to leave her husband and children, and then dumped her. He got another girlfriend to sell her flat, give up her job and move half way across the country to live with him. Shortly after which, he told her it wouldn't work. These are just the ones I know about. I don't know if it is deliberate or pathological. He has also been married and divorced twice but did not tell me about the second one until after we were finished.

Like some other people in a new relationship though, he likes to pretend he has no past and that everything is amicable. I thought I knew him well (obviously, to decide to have a child with him) but it turned out that I knew very little.

Bitter, not me.

My DD is 3 and hasn't had contact for 2 yrs and never any maintenance (see 'shaking with rage' thread)

Sounds fairly similar to my situation in terms of DD asking about 'daddy'.

All I have really said so far is that she does have a daddy but he doesn't live with us. What else can you really say?

Fortunately she has several good male role models in my dad and 2 brothers-in-law. She spends a lot of time with one uncle but doesn't quite understand why her cousins call him daddy and she calls him uncle.

I just don't know how I am going to be honest with her in the future about why he isn't in her life without breaking her heart. (and I don't have a clue how I am going to be all positive about him when it makes my blood boil thinking of how he treated me and her.)

I think you're doing the right thing by keeping a record of the communication between you. Perhaps that's all you can do. Keep sending the photos in the christmas card and emailing from time to time but maybe stop trying to set up contact for now. Let him know you will never stop him from seeing her and just provide occasional updates of her progress.

Maybe in a strange way he is right: He's clearly not bothered about putting her first or getting to know her (which I know is hard to accept as her mummy who adores her), but at least he won't let her down again and again by having contact that he's been pushed into. If he is going to have a positive relationship with her I think it needs to come from him. That's why I've left it alone with my DD's dad now. I tried and tried and he just kept letting us down.

And who knows.. perhaps you will meet someone else who will be a wonderful father to her. In the mean time all you can do is reassure her that you love her and keep being the wonderful mummy you are.

xx

I'm in a pretty similar situation with my dd who has just turned 3, she has never met her father but I have chosen never to pursue him for maintenance or contact. He made it very plain when I became pregnant that he was not interested in being a father, and I just think that the stress and upset that would be caused by me trying to persuade him to do something he doesn't want to do would just be a waste of time. I let him know when my dd was born, and what her name is, and I make sure that I keep my mobile number and email address the same so he could always find me if he wants to, but it is up to him.

I do think that must be very hard to have any grip on the real concept of a child you have never seen, ultimately all feelings about them are going to be filtered through your feelings about their mother (probably very negative!), so I just feel that their relationship is one I should stay out of! I try to be as positive as I can to my dd, and will give her all the information I have if she wants to try & contact him when she's old enough, but I think that's all that anyone can do. As goingbonkers says, you can't make other people have a positive relationship. Ultimately, you're NOT responsable for your dd's relationship with her father.

I try to always answer my dd's questions (I think not talkng about it is the worst thing to do, altho' it can be really hard) - my basic line is that her daddy didn't want to be a daddy but that she has lots of other relatives who love her (we have a lot of contact with my extended family). We saw Shrek 3 yesterday and were talking about how scared Shrek was of being a Daddy, and how lots of people feel like that and her Daddy wasn't quite as brave as Shrek. Not sure how positive that is, but hey...

Just save your time and energy for the stuff that you can make come good, that's what will really benefit your dd

x-post Gillybean.
I'm just having a bitter and twisted moment and getting it all out of my system. I find it really disturbing trying to communicate with him and I need a bit of therapy afterwards!

I know I cannot make him take an interest in her. I realised this a long time ago and/but I do still find it surprising that anyone would refuse the opportunity to know their own child. I think these people are very peculiar. With the exception of a recent time when dd nagged me to contact him, I do not involve dd. She does not know that I have been speaking with him in the last week and I don't talk about him to her.

He knows that I hate him. He has no illusions that I still love him. I knew people would say: just let it go, forget about him.... I know that I do sound bitter and a bit obsessive tonight but I assure you that I don't think about it all the time. Part of me would be very scared and worried if he did want to see dd because I don't want him in our lives really. It could only be bad news. I just couldn't forgive myself though if I didn't stick up for me and dd. We do deserve better. It's a pride thing and also important to me to show him that I won't just roll over and die, that dd won't just be brushed under the carpet. He's got away with that too much in the past with other people.

Dd is asking for him, not prompted by me, and is very persistant. She is very intelligent, like her father, and she sees the other children's fathers at nursery cuddling their dds. She has been asking about 'Daddies' (men) for over a year, calling after strangers in the street, and has been asking specifically about her 'Daddy' since about October. She calls out in her sleep for him. She calls for him when she is upset or when I have told her off. I have not encouraged her and have tried to respond very blankly and minimally.

I don't talk about him but she nagged me persistently before Xmas and was getting cross with me so, in the end, I agreed to write to him (send him an email) but I did warn her that it was very unlikely anything would result from it. I felt it was important for her to realise this, that I am not the one stopping her seeing him. That he doesn't want to come. She was upset because I had to tell her that he had not replied. It has blown over a bit since then but just really gone underground. She still calls out 'Daddy' in her sleep and sometimes mumbles about him when she doesn't realise I am listening.

As I said, it is a very fine line between totally ignoring anything she says about him, which I don't think is healthy because it is making her feel that it is a bad secret, and encouraging her to have unrealistic expectations which might mean that she gets hurt. I have talked to her about different types of family: those with two parents, those with just a Daddy, those with just a Mummy, etc.. She is ok with this and I hope that she will accept the situation more as she grows up.

He pays me the child maintenance voluntarily. He initially said he would not give us anything. I said I would go via the CSA as I would have nothing to lose. He then agreed to pay something and warned me that, if I went via the CSA, we would get nothing as, although he works for one company, he is a self-employed freelancer and the CSA would not be able to get anything out of him. I don't know if this is true but I agreed to accept the voluntary arrangement. I think he would hate the idea of the CSA poking about in his affairs. I expect he thinks he is a bit of an anarchist.

I've not heard of REMO? He said something about moving to Patagonia but I assume that was a joke.

I do think about contacting the rest of his family. I am really not optimistic about it but I may end up doing so. The main reason I haven't is, as I say, because I know it would make him very angry and that he would use that as an excuse to blame me for why he doesn't see dd. I don't want to give him that excuse. But if he stops paying maintenance and disappears then I won't feel any qualms any more. Even if he doesn't, I may well contact them in the next year or so.
It's just that we voluntarily had virtually no contact for nearly two years and he had previously said he wanted to see dd and that he would see her when she was a bit older, s I had to try again.

GoingBonkers - I read your thread. I can imagine how soul-destroying it is to put so much of your time and resources into trying to sort someone's life out, only to be forgotten and someone else benefitting from your work. But he can't have changed that much can he? I looked after my xp (same bloke) when he was in and after he came out of hospital after a self-induced illness. He wasn't at all grateful, despite the fact that I had to drop everything in my life to do it and I was doing it as a favour to him (before I fully realised how evil he is) because we were no longer together at that time.

As I said, the only reason I have tried to set up contact at this time is because dd is asking for it. I would not have done anything if it were not for that but I feel I have no choice but to represent her. Otherwise I am not doing my job as a mother. This is a guy who was abusive to me. I dread any contact with him. And I have not put any pressure on him at all, apart from calling him once and asking him politely. That will be it for now and possibly for ever, despite the fact that he is saying he will ring after Easter to let me know.

Well, enough trying to justify my point of view.

As I said, I just needed to vent, not really looking for advice as such. I don't want to talk to anyone about it in real life because people want to give you a solution to your problem. As there is no real solution, the only other solution is 'leave well alone' but I need to let this play out to ensure that I have done everything I can for dd. It is all very amicable and civil on the surface and I have no plans to contact him again.

You don't need to justify yourself to us! You are doing the right thing by your DD and being the best mummy you can.

You vent as much as you need!! We'll listen!

Good luck to you both. xx

FionaJT. I'm sorry that you are in a similar situation.

I guess I just have a very strong sense of family. My Dad was great and I think it is unacceptable for any father, no matter what the circumstances, to not bother with his child(ren). I appreciate that men in general, and particularly some men, may not feel the same about children as most women do. I also appreciate that it is hard to have feelings for someone you have never met. I also understand that his feelings about what happened between us (should be extreme guilt and regret but probably aren't!) must colour his feelings about her. But, to me, these are all just excuses and are not valid. I didn't have a child against his will. He planned her with me and admits this. So he should take responsibility. 'Should' but I know life isn't like that and not in this case anyway.

The bottom line for me is that, just because it is impossible and impracticable, and we all have to give up pursuing these absent fathers because we can't make them be decent. Just because this is the case, does not make it right or ok.

There is little I can do and I will always behave in a decent way about it, not lower myself to his level, but I think it is disingenuous to pretend that you can ever fully recover from it and put it completely behind you.............................................................................................blah .........blah............

Bugger, what I'm saying is that I would rather hit my head against a brick wall until it bleeds. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can talk myself blue in the face, give unwanted advice to all and sundry but, in the end, I want to hit my head against a brick wall. I AM NOT OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Losing it.

AAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......mmmmm.

Feel a bit better now.
This is what I find hardest about it. They f&&k you over and then you have to pretend they haven't, that you were in control, that you are over it, you have mooooooved on. And if you can't pretend well enough, you're a desperate deluded saddo. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Give up.

That will teach me for starting my own thread.

It is easy to give advice to someone in this situation but very hard to take it yourself sometimes.

Just accept it! Don't try to fight it. Move on with your life. Karma will bite him on the bum (I wish!) I am a better person for having gone through this shitty experience. Beatific Buddha Zen smile of peace and acceptance.

Why does it just feel like rolling over and accepting a kicking? Because I suppose I am a control freak too.

I'm ok though. I will ruminate a little further for a few days and then go back to my usual state of keeping it at the very back of my mind. Obsessing about it does just prolong the misery. You have to be disciplined and put it out of your mind.

I should be relieved and proud that I have cleverly (via reverse psychology) prevented him from invading our life and that I have kept dd safe from him. (If I think it long enough, I might start to believe it. Probably is true.)

(sorry and thanks)

Thanks goingbonkers. I think I should nick your name for the night?

You aren't a control freak. He sounds like a very nasty piece of work who is a very skillful manipulator. And you sound like a mother who wants to protect her dd. Horrible when someone else has the power to hurt our children, isn't it? Blimey, I was angry enough about my son's ex-nanny letting him down at the last minute, can't imagine how furious I'd be if it was his father!

Thanks Edam. That is it. This is all so far from what my father was like and from what I expected my family life to be. It is still hard to accept and still somehow seems unreal to me. Perhaps that's why I subconsciously still hope things will change. It is impossible to give up that hope.

Skyatnight - sorry you're feeling so awful tonight. Has been quite sobering for me to read this thread as I'm in the (kind of) opposite position of having XP insisting on contact when I'd rather he didn't.
I don't think I'm truly over him either (although I'd never admit that out loud in RL).
Really, really have to go to bed now (we're at mediation tomorrow morning) but wanted to say hang in there and send you some support. xx

He's clearly a complete shit but think of it this way - your genes realised they would go nicely with his genes and make a lovely baby. It's just unfortunate his genes came in such lousy packaging.

Thanks snotbuster. I can see why some of us don't want our xp/xh to have access. I think if my xp was demanding access with dd every weekend and interfering in our life then it would worry me too. I am only suggesting he make contact with her a few times a year, just so that she can put a face to the fantasy figure.

Edam - yes our genes were very attracted to each other and the sex was good, if a bit monotonous , but we turned out to be very incompatible in other areas and he would need a full personality transplant or perhaps just a bypass would do, but you might not be able to tell the difference.

Dd is a lovely, lively, funny Sweetie too, so I suppose I am very blessed (as Britney would say) and should feel very grateful to him.

I think you sound like a very strong woman who will be respected by her daughter when she is older. I agree with AMAZINGWOMAN right up at the top there. Perhaps you could get a shoe box and print off the emails you have sent to prick face and see if you have any photo's of him. You could then when she's old enough let her take a look and perhaps make hew own mind up. I have done this with my son... collected pics of his dad... written down the football teams he supports and some other stuff about him as he seems to be rapidly losing intrest in ds. I have also written down all the problems that we had in our relationship so that my little boy knows it wasnt his fault. I dont know if he will be interested in any of the stuff but at least i can give him that choice. Your daughter really deserves better. All you can do i suppose is what you think is right. Maybe one day her dad will come around and see what an amazing little star he is missing out on... but then again he might not. Just remember tho you are in control. ur not with the guy nemore so he cant control u! sorry if that sounds like a load of mumbo jumbo crap but it sorta made sense in my head chin up i think ur dealing with this very well

Thanks Charlotte121
I have kept correspondence. I have pictures and recordings of his voice on ansafone telling me he loves me. Bit pathetic to keep them (makes me feel a bit sick) but I still want them as proof of something for dd. I have other stuff as well.

I read your profile and it sounds like you are doing a really good job with your son. It will be sad if his father loses interest in him. It often happens, I suppose, but I don't think it should. No child should be subjected to that feeling of rejection when they are still so young, whether it is from a parent they have never seen or from a parent they aleady know.

I go through long periods of acceptance and feeling that it is for the best that he is not in our lives but, from time to time, I feel the sting of that rejection again (especially on behalf of my daughter) and I get angry all over again.

Think I'm over it for now, anyway.

skyatnight
I grew up not knowing my father. All I knew was that he and my mum had split up when I was young and that my mum had remarried. I knew my biological father was around, but did not see him. My sister is four years older than I am and she remembers more than I do.
I grew up with the fantasty of my biological father. I already had a dad (the man my mum married when I was four) but wondered about my father.
I grew up wondering how your father can leave just after you are born and struggled with that idea, as i suppose any child would when a parent leaves not long after their birth. I spent many a years wondering.
When I was 17 my granddad died (his step father) so he was at the funeral. It was the first time I had ever laid eyes on him. I was disgusted that my biological father made no effort to cross the room to talk to me or my sister - explaining later to people that he felt we should make the first move.
I'm in my 20's now, and it was when I was about 21 that I started to think he was a dickhead and not worth my thoughts. He is a waste of space, not worth my attention. After I turned 21 I found more details - that he used to beat my mum, that he once picked my sister up by her hair for "being naughty" and I realise how better off I am without him.
Even with having my own daughter now, I am not interested in meeting him, and I doubt I'd ever tell my daughter that my dad is not her biological grandfather iyswim. My dad looks at me and my sister as his daughters, and my daughter as his grandchild.

You'll have to tred a fine line. Your daughter will continue to ask after her father, its natural. And it is a fine line in not addressing the issue and telling too much that would hurt her. I think hearing how abusive my biological father was at a young age would have upset me, but not knowing was also difficult.

If you can persuade him to write her the odd letter, send a card on her birthday / Christmas etc, it should give her some contact. But I dont think you should push him anymore, he's obviously a wanker-waste-of-space and you shouldn't have to waste your energy on him.

Oh and FWIW my mum is very strong and independant. She drilled into us all (she has three girls) that we dont need a man, that we can support ourselves, that we can do what we want and there are no limits. Me and my sisters are really strong wont take any crap type people
You sound like a strong woman - keep it up and your daughter will be fine

ElfOTTS - Thanks.
It is interesting to hear from someone who was the child in an absent father situation.

It sounds like your father was a nasty piece of work too. I think these men are very selfish.

It does worry me that dd will grow up fantasising about her father and never seeing him. It is all very well to say: 'don't talk about him' but as you know, even if nobody talks about it and even if you have a good replacement father figure, it is only natural to wonder.

It sounds as if the incident at the funeral was a turning point for you. You finally got to see him but, as he didn't even bother to talk to you, you then realised that there was no mystery, he really didn't care. I wonder if my dd will ever get that opportunity. It is a nasty lesson to learn but a useful one.

Thanks for thinking I'm strong. I think it is great that your mum has encouraged you all to be strong and independent. My mother and father were like that with me but I need to stop attracting losers!

I don't expect a lot from dd's father. I have asked him if he would see her 2 to 4 times a year, so that they have some kind of relationship. And, if he doesn't feel able to see her at all, that he just send the odd card or make a phone call. I don't think he will do it though. I can not be sure whether that would do more harm than good but you just have to try. I will continue to be very careful not to mention anything to dd or to raise any expectations.

As someone else says, he must be scared of something. But I can't push it, it achieves nothing. I accepted that a long time ago. It's more the having to play the game of pretending that annoys me. I am not allowed to behave in a straightforward manner with him or he then refuses to consider anything and blames it on me. It is as if I have to take the kicking and pretend to like it as well.

Anyway, I will eventually learn not to bother at all. Which will be what he wants. And dd will eventually learn that her fantasy father figure is just that.

It is good that you had lots of kind relatives around you, including some of your fathers. That must help, to realise that he is the exception and that there is nothing wrong with you, it is not your fault.

Dd has me, my brother and sister, our friends, but my parents passed away and she has no contact with his family. I don't feel any inclination currently to find a replacement father figure for her. If it happens, good, but I don't want to get together with someone just because I want to find her a father. I will make every effort, though, to ensure that she has lots of good people around her so that she knows she is loved and has lots of support.