Terribly behaved children :(

[Mammabear111]

Hello
I have two little boys age 3 and 4 there behavior is terrible and they are out of control they call me a piece of poo hit me daily don't do anything I tell them and if I tell them to do something they don't want to they will hit me more and they throw toys at me I am so sick of there behavior it often drives me to tears at the end of the day I take them to the park every single day but even when they are out they be naughty but in public such has hitting me running of taking tantrums hitting over children throwing stones ringing and banging neighbors door they get plenty of attention and I show them lots of love they have lots of toys but break everything in my house and have broken 8 tvs I must add my four year old is waiting to be assessed for autism but 3 year olds behavior is just has terrible he has started to spit at me when he's angry they can be loving and kind and sometimes will be good and we can have a nice day but a lot of the time it's KOS when we are out they won't hold my hand and just run and don't walk nicely I am so embarrassed by there behavior a lot of it I fort mite be my older sons autism but either way I just want them to grow up sweet young boys and I want to enjoy my days with them instead of waiting for the years to go by I am trying so hard with them both I did some baking with them recently and all they done was chuck the icing everywhere and laugh I am so fed up I just want to enjoy our days together instead of there behavior being so challenging I have tryed taking toys away and telling them of explaining what they have done wrong nothing works the only thing I haven't tryed is reward charts I am a single parent and I just want to have a nice enjoyble days with my children instead of feeling so stressed and exhausted from there terrible behavior any advice would be amazing tonight I asked my four year old to not bring he's bike inside and he hit me and brung it in anyway :(

Consider getting in touch with the health visiting service. They should have early years practitioners or similar who are ere experts in supporting parents with behaviour management. They can also make other referrals if they think they are needed such as to adhd and autism pathways.

I would ask for an occupational therapist assessment for your autistic child. If you can work out his sensory needs it will help keep him calm and his behaviour will be more manageable. Don’t take away his time outside. Ask if you can be referred to a specialist health visitor for advice more specific you your son’s needs. Good luck and I hope things improve for you. This is a really tricky age, my child started to calm down more around 5. Traditional discipline didn’t work with him, it was all about giving him the sensory stimulation he needed to help him to feel regulated.

The need firmer disciplining than "kind hand"

Yes sadly I think the time for 'kind hands' has gone it sounds like it's not helping at all, we have three and I think you need to start being firm first and then you can ease off once they know how to behave?

Consequences should be firm and fast. You can't take something away hours later they don't relate it to the bad behaviour so think if something that can be immediate and visual, maybe a sticker chart to earn half n hour of cartoons In the evening. When they play up you remind them of the system. Stick to it rigidly. It's good that you're going to sort it now at this age, easier to do now than when they're bigger and getting into more trouble.

Maybe join some Facebook groups for autism parenting tips specifically

Might be worth getting this moved to the sn section, the fact your oldest child is autistic makes things quite different. I've found that the normal advice doesn't really work with mine.

To tackle the behaviour it helps to know the reason behind it. See if you can get an OT referral. Try and figure out his sensory needs. If he likes breaking things try to figure out why, is it the smashing sound? I gave mine ice cubes to smash. Is it the force involved? Try play doh he can squash. Chewable jewellery he can bite really hard on.

If he misbehaves while out of the house it may be sensory overload getting him wound up so go somewhere quieter than the park if it's busy.

One thing I wish I'd realised sooner is that although her speech was ok, her understanding was way behind kids of her age. We used now and next visual aids so she actually understood what was happening. We kept to a very strict routine, which was obviously quite restrictive and at times boring but her behaviour really benefitted from it.

My younger childs behaviour has improved naturally as her sister has calmed down and all the techniques seem to work for her too, though I don't think she actually does have any additional needs and was just copying because she thought that's what was normal behaviour.

If they won't hold your hand to cross the road, you need to grab hold of them by the wrist. You are in charge. It is not ok to run out in the road and you need to make sure that this is something they understand. After a couple of crossings like this, offer a choice - "Do you want to hold mummy's hand to cross the road or do I need to hold your arm?" Continue until they choose to hold hands.

What are they watching on TV? So they have any age-i appropriate influences (older cousins gaming or on YouTube)? If possible reduce screen time (not always easy as a single parent, I know!)

Diet/sugar crashes can also influence behaviour. Cut out sweets/chocolate etc and replace squash, fizzy drinks with water/milk. It sounds silly, but I changed breakfast cereals and noticed a marked difference in the behaviour of my children.

Make a list of things they need to do to Eg. Brush teeth, make bed, put their own socks on, put 10 toys away. You can add extra stuff to the list if they need to earn back toys or earn TV privileges.

Good luck. Stay strong 💪

HI OP, This all sounds really hard.

Google "sensory seeking behaviours' which may give you some specific ideas for your older child.

You don't say if they are getting a try or frustrated when lashing out but my son used to lash out at this age as well. I had a body map and once he was calm got him to identify where he felt his feelings. He used to colour in the chest area and hands. As he got older he used to talk about "fizzy hands" which makes sense if you think about over breathing and pins and needles.

We also worked on anger rules which were that it was okay to be angry but don't hurt other people, don't hurt yourself and don't damage property. It took years of practice but now aged 20yrs he is very calm, loving and placid.

Also Google "zones of regulation" and get your older boy beginning to identify where he is at various times.

Is he in nursery? What are they saying?

@Mammabear111 so you have one child who is likely autistic.
It is quite possible that the other one is too.

id repost on the SN thread as ‘normal techniques’ dont always work.
There are some pointers on this thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4809096-i-am-an-autism-expert-ask-me-anything
And on this website
https://twoemb.medium.com/

Yes, I think the SN thread is a better place for this post. I am a single parent and have two autistic children so know how difficult it can be - NT discipline can often make things worse/escalate.

You are finding it difficult because it is difficult. But there are things that can make it easier. I found reading 'The Explosive Child' very helpful. Though my children are older than yours now, which makes it easier to rationalise/discuss with them what might be causing them difficulties and find solutions. But it is also useful for yourself to help reframe the situation/understand the cause of certain behaviours (not being 'naughty' deliberately etc.)

I have also realised that I am probably ASD/ADHD as well, and have issues with overwhelm/boundaries, that make it difficult for me sometimes to cope when things are kicking off.

Is there anyone you can ask for help? Are either of your children at nursery? Having a bit of down time for yourself is also important to help yourself regulate.

Are you using your nursery/childcare hours for both of them? I would book them into nursery on different days so you have a lot of individual time with each one so you can really work on getting them listening and responding to you without the other one egging them on.

Do they eat healthily. Eating too much sugar has a huge impact on one of mine.

I totally sympathise. It sounds like such a difficult situation. The good news is that they are young. Regardless of whether they have SEN needs, things can get better.

Most children, including those with SEN, respond well to positive reinforcement whether this be verbal, a cuddle, a sticker, screen time etc. I know it can be draining, but by rewarding them when they are doing the right thing, they get your attention and a sense of accomplishment. You have to start really small and gradually build up. It feels ridiculous at first because you are congratulating them on the smallest successes. Having two small children actually works in your favour as they will start to compete to be the ‘best’ behaved. Even if I’ve had to ask them to do something 5 times, I would still praise them when they finally follow the instruction.

I don’t subscribe to the ‘pick your battles’ approach. Set high expectations and be consistent. Again it’s hard work initially but it will pay off eventually. I think using good manners is so important to instil when the children are young.

I commend you for taking them to the park regardless of their behaviour. I think this is important for their development. Good luck!

@MayasMum0 It's not the OP's fault. She can learn, adapt and change and is willing to do so. I'm guessing you are entirely lacking in that capacity. Or you're a 13 year old troll.

Life is complicated. @confusedeffie's advice is solid - for most kids. For my two (one NT, one ND) it'd be a recipe for endless arguments. Praise, yes, but competition does not work in this house.

I'm stuck on the eight TVs tbh. If I'd broken or damaged one TV the wooden spoon would have come out. You need to to parent properly (lots of advice here).

You’ve had some great advice op.

I would add:
You are giving them too much verbal. “I ask them…” “I say to them…” “I’ve told them…” Stop this.

The verbal feedback you should mostly be giving them is praise and encouragement. “Well done for sitting nicely!” “great job getting your socks on so quickly…” “let’s see who can clean their teeth the shiniest” etc. lots of ‘good boys’ and ‘mummy loves that you are doing…xyz’

You praise praise praise all their good behaviour even if it isn’t much at first. Praise for eating most of their dinner without fuss, praise for getting ready for bed, praise for sitting nicely next to their brother etc.

When they behave badly you physically remove them but no eye contact and stern face. Don’t speak. Let your body language do that. Once they comply you go back to being nice mummy again. No need for telling off or post mortems. It’s very simple - good behaviour gets praise, love and happy mummy. Bad behaviour gets them nothing.

If you do this consistently all the time, they’ll soon learn which behaviour ‘rewards’ them in a way that makes them feel good and it will become second nature.

I would contact your local councils early help service or local childrens centre, there should be local parents group where they can help you cope or put you in touch with a family support worker (I work with vulnerable families and there is so much help out there).

So mean and unhelpful

First. Do a parenting course. It helps the diagnostic process. It may help with behaviour it might not. But it helps you with your confidence. You can say at assessment I did X course and using yz strategies but they are not working with my children.

Second.

Think differently about what is achievable. You can't do the same things with autistic children as NT children. Don't do a lot. Very short visits lots of down time. (Unless you have a sensory seeker)

Third. Prevention.
Keep well fed, well hydrated and well rested. Reduce the stimulation.
Google occupational therapy and exercises for autistic kids. Do every day.

Consequences: mine lost a privilege but could earn it back by being (desired behaviour) if couldn't earn it back then there was no point being good for the rest of the day.

Try deep pressure (firm hugs) when not behaving. It helps calm many of them. Also rock in one direction. I perfected a way to hold them that restrained them safely during a meltdown. Not before I was head butted in the race and scratched across the face. And hair pulled.

Keep kids separate until fed breakfast or tea.

Use screen time. Mine finds it mostly calming as do I. (Autistic) pick the game/video carefully though don't uses something they can loose at and then meltdown.

Try sticking one in front of the washing machine to watch that. That worked for one of mine.

Work out what they are sensitive to. They may be over sensitive or under sensitive.

Jumping off stuff may be beneficial.

You can get Sen reins which are stronger if they are runners.

Practice naming emotions with them.

Read the positive behaviour strategy posts above. They work reasonably well. (They are still autistic so will still.meltdown.and you will still get pissed off sometimes and grump at them, because you are only human.)

Diet seems to be something that might work but it depends on your kids restrictions. Plenty of fruit and veg of the sort they will eat in the form they will eat it in. Reduce the processed stuff. (One of my autistic teens eats lots of processed stuff so I know it's not always possible.)