Terribly behaved children :(

[Mammabear111]

Hello
I have two little boys age 3 and 4 there behavior is terrible and they are out of control they call me a piece of poo hit me daily don't do anything I tell them and if I tell them to do something they don't want to they will hit me more and they throw toys at me I am so sick of there behavior it often drives me to tears at the end of the day I take them to the park every single day but even when they are out they be naughty but in public such has hitting me running of taking tantrums hitting over children throwing stones ringing and banging neighbors door they get plenty of attention and I show them lots of love they have lots of toys but break everything in my house and have broken 8 tvs I must add my four year old is waiting to be assessed for autism but 3 year olds behavior is just has terrible he has started to spit at me when he's angry they can be loving and kind and sometimes will be good and we can have a nice day but a lot of the time it's KOS when we are out they won't hold my hand and just run and don't walk nicely I am so embarrassed by there behavior a lot of it I fort mite be my older sons autism but either way I just want them to grow up sweet young boys and I want to enjoy my days with them instead of waiting for the years to go by I am trying so hard with them both I did some baking with them recently and all they done was chuck the icing everywhere and laugh I am so fed up I just want to enjoy our days together instead of there behavior being so challenging I have tryed taking toys away and telling them of explaining what they have done wrong nothing works the only thing I haven't tryed is reward charts I am a single parent and I just want to have a nice enjoyble days with my children instead of feeling so stressed and exhausted from there terrible behavior any advice would be amazing tonight I asked my four year old to not bring he's bike inside and he hit me and brung it in anyway :(

You need to get back control of your household regardless of whether the kids are SEN or not. Please order 1-2-3 Magic a psychologist recommended it to me when I was at my wit's end with one older child who is SEN. You won't regret t.

Clearly the gentle approach isn't working. Tell them off! It's not ok to hit you or others and you're not doing them any favours by letting them act like this.

I love tea thankyou so much for your kind comment :) I will try the jar idea
And Susie I have applied for DLA but I am still waiting to see if he has been accepted for it
Hopefully has will help for me to do more activitys things what mite help beacuse I have noticed my older child seems like he needs a lot more activitys and stimulation and gets bored easily
My 4 year old loves water and water play is he's favorite thing which is a little hard where it's not that warm right now has it should be it's tricky because sometimes the more stricter I am or if my older child doesn't want to do something he will run of so I am always trying to not get him to the point we're he mite when we our out he won't go in a buggy anymore and neither of them will keep reins on or hold my hand it was so easy when they were both little I had them both 2 under 2 at one point and was easier then this! I love them so much I always feel bad for how bad there behavior is and see calm kids holding hands and being calm with there parent and envy that 😅 xx

Sorry OP - so hard. I wonder if reframing some of this might help you. You’re on the same team but seem to be pitched against each other. Going harder on punishments is not necessarily going to help - you rarely make children behave better by feeling worse. The 3 year old (possibly both of them) won’t equate spitting being bad with the consequence of taking the park trip away from them later in the day - it will just lead to more meltdowns. Be firm, in control and respond at the time of bad behaviour by allowing the feeling not the behaviour ‘I can see that you didn’t like that / feel angry and that’s ok, but it isn’t ok to spit. Let’s try and use your words to ask xxx to stop’. If they’re winding each other up - seperate them (same if they’re fighting over a toy - remove it). You’re in control but perhaps need to explore different ways ways of communicating and different tools to help you.

What do you mean they ‘won’t keep reins on?’ Get some that clip in the back and do not leave the house without them. If they don’t want to wear them they don’t go to the park/library/wherever.

And how have two preschoolers broken 8 television sets? What are they doing to them to break them, how is it actually being done? I would say after having broken one I would not allow them near the TV again.

I think it might benefit you to look into some proper help. When my kids were really young I took a class at an old sure start type of place, not sure if they’re about anymore. It taught me a lot about setting boundaries without getting angry/shouting. You sound really permissive and like you aren’t sure how to manage the children. I would prioritise getting any help you can because it won’t get better as they get older and stronger.

I would also start removing them very firmly (even if you have to drag them) the minute they hit other children in public play spaces. It’s just totally not acceptable and they need to know that. If you can’t/don’t stop them then you should remove them to ensure they can’t and don’t hit other people.

Also I don’t understand what you say about asking your four year old not to bring his bike inside but he ‘hit you and brung it in anyway.’ How did this even happen? He’s four. The minute he tried to bring it over the threshold you should have removed it by force and told him off for being rude and not listening, and took him back outside to put his bike away. How is he managing to overpower you and just do as he likes?

Kanaloa at the time I was carrying my over child in who was having a tantrum at the time once he brung it in and hit me I removed the bike and it went back outside we're I asked it to stay and for the TV thing my oldest little boy throws toys and objects when upset which hit the tv and he has pulled it over at times when upset or over excited younger child has copied and that is why we have had so many currently don't have one untill it will be on the wall !

With kids especially those with special needs they thrive on routine and consistency. Especially if they know what will come next this helps them feel a bit more safe. Have a timetable made from pictures so they know what you are doing have routines for everything.

Are they getting enough sleep at night? Enough exercise? Enough healthy food and stimulation all this has an impact on behaviour.

Also make sure you are stating your expectations before any activity. You are telling how they need to behave In very simple language and what will happen if they do not follow the rules that way they know what to expect.

Ensure you are using positive language when speaking to them instead of saying no running tell them walk next to me. Show me your kind hands. Or just kind hands for the little one. There is a story book called hands are not for hitting that might be a good story to read to this age group.

I mean it sounds like you need some prevention as well then. No toys in the living room. TV only on when sitting calmly and quietly on the couch with empty hands and you next to them so the TV doesn’t get broken. The minute they go towards the TV you say ‘NO’ or ‘DON’T TOUCH’ and remove them from the room sharply and turn the TV off. That’s what I’m a bit confused about - the very first time they broke a TV you knew they couldn’t be trusted. Yet they managed to break seven more TVs. You need to take a bit of initiative because part of the problem is that they can do whatever they like. Smash a TV? No problem, a new one will show up! It needs to be a bit more regimented to break the habit of doing it.

I say use your kind hands and show me your kind hands regularly

Unfortunately, saying that doesn’t mean a damn thing.

At that age, it doesn’t mean anything. You could say ’green feet’ and it would have exactly the same effect.

And reins? If they can escape them, then no reins = home immediately. Same for not holding hands.

With instant consequences, they will learn. Sure, it is a pain in the ass for you if it means you leave the supermarket without the shopping you planned to get. But they will learn.

You need consistent firm boundaries. And to get a hold of behaviour like this you need to be really really consistent.

Set some form rules with consequences. And flow through. Every single time.

And you need to find your "mum voice" if you haven't already.

And employ tactics for trigger points such as countdowns for when leaving an activity (eg 5mins, 3 mins, 2 mins, 1 min we are leaving....)

My DS has ASC and ADHD. And he thrived under consistent boundaries. Had a lot of push back initially when I first implemented them before I realised how to parent but once he got the hang of the idea he was much happier when he knew the rules and where he stood!! It validating for children to have a clear understanding of your expectations of them.

Remember an ASC child may also appear to be misbehaving when they are having a meltdown due to overstimulation or overwhelm. So some judgement about that and management of their environment is also required.

ASC children may also benefit from something like having a visual timetable for their day - so they know what's going to happen in what order. You can keep referring back to this through the day. Can help prevent overwhelm and meltdowns.

Some things to try, I'm sure others have other ideas, but the clear consistent boundaries is the key one to nail! And that mum voice!

You are right to ask for help, those boys are going to grow and it’s going to get worse. Ask your health visitor for parenting courses - some of them are good and very practical.

Have things that they like, treats / iPad / TV and give them out to them after you want them to do something or behave well. Like iPad after dinner if you’ve not thrown anything.

Have a routine where the same things happen every day. Fill the day with activities. Take them to activity clubs with other kids and parents - it will really show them how to behave and you will find yourself trying harder to keep them under control. Find ones that they like.

If they throw things, say very clearly and very firmly (not shouting) NO THROWING. Every time they throw, the toy gets put up high. Say NO THROWING 3 x. Expect loads of tantrums. Don’t get into a conversation. Keep calm. IF they are still throwing, then say NO IPAD or TV for 30 minutes. And mean it.

But it you can, fill their day with structure so no part of the day is empty. Like…

8am wake up - morning box of toys.
9am breakfast
9.30am brush teeth and get dressed.
10am out to park
11am snack / treat if they have been well behaved.
11.30am back home and TV but it goes off if anything is thrown.
12.30pm Dancing around / being silly
12.45pm Lunch plus cookie if they’ve had lunch nicely.
1.30pm IPad
2pm out for an club like football club / gymnastics / whatever is around…
Etc.
Write it up with small pictures so your autistic son knows what is happening when.

oh op it’s so tough isn’t it. Sometimes you just want to book a one way flight to Mexico and run 😂 it’s the age of them too. I have two that age and they get each other hyper. If yours are anything like mine, the younger one will copy the older one which is unfortunate if the older one is being a bit of hard work and like that hitting ect . I think you are doing a lot right though. I also think these seasons don’t last so things will get better and chances are the pair of them will settle down a lot. Can you increase some sensory play activities at parts of the day at all? I find mine calm right down with some magic sand. Also a handy thing is going to the beach with a paint palette and letting them paint shells. It means the mess is contained (similar fun to the icing without wrecking the kitchen) and also there is sand to play with there too and plenty of open space to run around. It’s so bloody hard though.

You're way too soft in them.

Erm your the parent you need to make a solid stand. We have 3 under 2 and if any showed that behaviour they know theres consequences. So luckily we don't get that behaviour.

What does “Show me your kind hands” mean? What would you do if someone said, “Show me your kind hands” OP?

It means zilch to your DC - obviously!

Tell them, “Do that again and I’m taking you home” and the very second they do it again you take them straight home. It doesn’t matter if they refuse to put their coats on or they try to run off. They are small enough for you to pick them up and carry them out - with or without their coats on. You’ll probably have to do this twice (or more) because they may test you again after the first time. Once they realise you mean what you say it’s then they will begin to realise there’s a consequence for their actions.

You have to be firm and consistent - and show them you are the person who can give them treats, when they behave appropriately. And you are the person who can take treats away. This is how children learn how to be behave in a socially acceptable manner.

“Show me kind hands” means nothing to them. They are not interested in the welfare of others. Children of this age are egocentric. Which means they are only interested in themselves.

All our actions have consequences, regardless of age. Your children need firm boundaries to teach them to how to behave around others.

What happens when they throw things at you? What’s the consequence for that action?

Your D.C. have broken… what was it? … 9 TV’s. And each time you have replaced the TV and allowed them to have things hanging around to pick up and throw at the TV again, and again.

They keep doing it because you keep allowing them to do it.

Forget “Kind hands”. Spell out to them what they’ve done and what the consequences are going to be.

• Time out on the stair or sofa (one minute for each year of their ages). Split them up will work better. One on the sofa and the other on a stair or chair away from the sofa. Make sure you only give time out to the child who acted out of turn. Do not punish both if only one did the deed.
• All toys to be removed from living room (because you don’t want another TV screen smashed)
• Time out in their bedroom (on their own) for striking their mother
• No trip to the park tomorrow for … whatever wrong act was carried out … and that will continue until they do something helpful like help with the washing up, dust the table, tidy their mess up. Anything to show they can behave in a helpful, acceptable manner
• Devise a star chart with a star to be earned at the end of each day if they manage to complete daily tasks. Once they have earned 7 stars they can choose a packet of sweets/or chocolate bar, or whatever they regard as a small treat. Don’t give them treats as a matter of course on a daily basis. Let them earn treats.
• Once they have the hang of the star chart let them work towards a bigger treat. Up to you how many stars are needed for a small car, figure, colouring book or whatever they are into.

Children don’t instinctively know how to behave OP. It’s a parents job to teach them through consistent boundaries, love and fairness.

There’s too many instances of poor behaviour in your posts. Nobody can go through them all but the key is theres a consequence for every behaviour and consistent boundaries set by you is vital.

Good luck 🍀

Another to say stricter and firmer boundaries. I say this with love, but ASD is not an excuse or a reason to be softer on him. I do understand about copying behavior though (my eldest has ASD and the two youngest DC copy a lot of his behaviors).

I would not stop taking them outside, it sounds like they really need the space. Instead of parks, I would look for places like forests where they can be free from public gaze or risk hurting others.

Also, please consider carefully what you have in your home. Too many toys can offer too much stimulation and make things too difficult to choose. Reduce 'things' dramatically. The kids don't need a lot.

Use screens as a reward. I never ever used tv in the morning, but would use it for quiet time after lunch. If they break another one, take it away completely.

Find your Batman voice, and use it.

It will be utterly shit for a bit, BUT in 4-6 weeks you should see changes. Do not give up. Stay consistent, with the routine, with the changes and with consequences. It's really important.

That might work on a NT child but as someone with ADHD belting me, screaming at me, sending me to my room was just another pain in the backside and noise in my head and there is so much going on in my head that I could entertain myself for hours.
For my own children, (both ADHD as am I) although we had a tv it would never get turned on from one week to the next There just wasn’t any time. Dc were at nursery then we would be out all day. (Reins with extendable dog leads worked). We would go into town the Science Museum was always a favourite then when we got back. It was Tea, bath and then bed with hours of reading books to them until both had fallen asleep followed by clearing the chaos then bed time
You have to learn their triggers and distract and remove them from situations before they get chance to act on their impulses.

Reins are a must as then they don’t run off and don’t go bothering others.

They also need a huge amount of exercise so going to the park isn’t giving them enough exercise.

Both dd and Ds were walking the 3 mile dog walk route each day at 2 years old
and still running around the garden in the afternoon.

Do you have access to some countryside walks even if it is a bus ride away and you can pack a picnic and go walking.
They might be a bit young for some groups but I would look out for activities they can start doing as they get to 4-5 years old. Even if eldest does the activity and then you have one to one with youngest. I think they are making the other braver and more naughty than they would be so if you can get time where they aren’t specifically in each other’s company could help.

It is a case of divide and conquer and giving them 100% attention whilst they are awake.

It is exhausting on the one hand always being alert to where they are and what they are doing and second guessing the triggers and removing the triggers or them from situations before things go wrong and distracting them to draw their. Attention on to something else.

Could you implement strategies used for kids with autism anyway? Maybe look at the national autistic society website for ideas. Browse SEN forums. Use social stories well before/well after triggers for poor behaviour (when everything’s normal), move away out of sight if safe/create your own safe space if they are heightened (or your feeling upset) to deescalate, minimal use talking things through during a situation as this can aggravate a situation, day to day use now & next pictures so the kids know what’s happening and include rewards, use pictorial lists/plans for steps ahead with them creating some of the order (enabling them to have some control within boundaries set by yourself), reward charts, also divide and conquer, so do things with the kids separately so they each have quality 1:1 time with you daily. Love bomb. Lots of positive attention.

what are their triggers to poor behaviour. Overwhelm? Control? Attention? What usually happens before, during, after? What’s is your response? They’re response

Yes and more running around outside to expel energy. First thing in the morning and again every afternoon. Rain or shine. Scooters, balance bikes, ball skills, swimming, soft play, park, trampoline in garden. Activities with space and low people population.

yes and also find out what the trigger is to these situations. Once you know, you can start to make changes by avoiding or approaching things differently.

Forget the gentle parenting. Kids need to know that you are in charge, not them. It makes kids very anxious when a parent seems to be nervous about asserting her authority.