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Moving abroad with children

14 replies

Prollynot · 22/04/2022 15:53

I separated from my ex late last year after years of emotional abuse. He is now only having supervised contact with our children, court proceedings are ongoing. I am glad to be free, myself and DDs are receiving counseling and things are looking up. I have lived in the UK for 15+ years but due to the controlling nature of my ex was never allowed to make friends much or have people over. As a result I really don't have much of a support network, I'm trying to work on friendships but it takes time. If I am honest with myself in my heart I really want to move back to my home country where I have my whole family for support. There are so many considerations that make it easy to talk myself out of it, but then I think I've ignored my wants and desires for so long maybe I deserve to follow my heart for once? Some of the challenges are:

  • I would need permission from ex which he wouldn't give so it'd have to go through court. I don't know how long a process this is and if it likely to be successful. My home country is about an hour's flight from the UK so it would not be impossible to maintain some contact if court allows.
  • children (9 and 11) don't speak the language because ex wouldn't allow me to teach them, they've started learning a bit now. Would it be too big an upheaval to move to a foreign country, find new schools and make new friends considering everything they've been through already?

If anyone has been through this or can offer any advice it'd be very welcome.

OP posts:
Prollynot · 22/04/2022 22:20

Anyone? 😟

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Needanewadventure2021 · 22/04/2022 22:48

No experience of this so apologies however I've been told that the Courts are nearly always unlikely to grant an order which prevents a parent having access to their children, even in the worst circumstances.

I may be wrong but in my experience my son's dad is completely absent by choice however he is named on the BC despite stopping all contact pretty much my whole child's life. I was advised against court as a court wouldn't grant a name change even in the event of them being totally absent as they feel it is necessary for a link to be maintained between the child and absent parent. I honestly find it bizarre how they are with things. I was advised against court as it will bring an abusive person back into our lives to be able to control me all over again. In the meantime I am questioned when we travel if my child's father has given permission etc. He basically is allowed to retain his parental rights despite having no part of his child's life. That scares me the most. That a stranger still retains rights to a child he abandoned nearly 7 years ago!

I have no experience of your situation but I imagine it will be very difficult. Court is a very expensive process though and if he wants to contest your intentions he will have to take you through the courts too.

Sorry I probably haven't made much sense but I've learned it's very hard removing a parents rights/access

Prollynot · 23/04/2022 08:29

Thanks for your reply @Needanewadventure2021 . Yes it is quite bizarre how the family court operates, I think there is insufficient consideration for the impact of domestic abuse or observed domestic abuse on a child. I think you are right I probably have a small chance of succeeding, I will think about it some more. It's scary to think if anything were to happen to me I'd have no support system to step in and helps with the children. I mean I have people who can look after the kids for a few hours or pick them up from school, but nothing beyond that.

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Needanewadventure2021 · 23/04/2022 09:43

Oh sorry @Prollynot I did not want to make out you will be unsuccessful. No one knows your full circumstances. It's definitely worth getting some sort of advice.

Just from my own situation and experience of legal advice and the system I know it's really hard.

Four years after him telling me he was choosing his new woman over his son, I ended up finding an email for him. He hit the roof that I had made contact! This was because everytime I've taken my child abroad I am Subject to questioning. Sometimes their way of questioning has really upset me. This is despite traveling with BC, return tickets etc. It really gets to me how it is ME who provides a life for my child, ME who deals with school, medical, dentist etc. It is ME who deals with everything for my child. Yet because he is named as the other parent I've given him PR. Common sense should be after absence for so long their rights should be removed. You wouldn't be allowed to Foster or adopt without various checks and assessments etc. You wouldnt be allowed to care for any child on the basis you have at some point mothered or fathered a child! His Dad is basically a stranger yet retains his PR. My biggest mistake was forcing him to register his birth with me.

Anyway after 4 years of complete absence and 3 trips to Europe where I'd been questioned about father's permission I plucked up the courage to request exclusive permission to travel abroad and also gave my reasons for wanting to change my child's surname. I kept things really polite and to the point giving very valid reasons. I eventually got a NO.

So I responded and asked for his reasons and he sent me a further 30 odd emails being really abusive and controlling. Which to be honest took me right back to how it felt when he was still in our lives. I literally fell back into the woman i was 4 years ago instantly. His ONLY argument was that he has PR. At this point I was internally raging that he can use the fact he has PR but hasn't for the last 4 years made any attempt to contact or have a relationship with his child. Because he became so controlling I was told to drop contact again. To be honest I had to. I'd spent 4 years working on myself, rebuilding our life for all it to take was some email communication from him to put me right back to the woman I was.

It was at this point I got legal advice. Our circumstances are different to yours it's just my opinion of the system in these situations.

I was advised against any court action as it will bring a man back into our lives who has no interest in his child (he never once asked about him in those emails) and allow him to have control over us again . He has already said no, so on this basis a court wouldn't grant permission for name change anyway regardless of his absence. It's really hard to remove PR and unfortunately if they have it they get a say no matter what. The Solicitor told me to carry on with our lives and never contact him again as he won't bother us unless I bother him and he will never agree to my requests anyway as it is a way to have power and control over me. She advised me to travel as I wish and enjoy our holiday's and just accept that I may be questioned, but without a court order or child protection in place, or him turning up at the airport refusing my child's travel, nothing can actually be done at the airport as they have no powers to stop you from travelling without these official things in place. She also told me my case would never make it to court as he would need to attend and no man like him would ever stand before a Judge and explain why they have made no attempt of a relationship with their child but can cite their PR and deprive a child they have no contact with a holiday. Ive met 2 solicitors in these 7 years and taken with me plenty of evidence of our situation. Lets just say the evidence is CLEAR he is a manipulator, controller, abuser and has no intentions of being a father. It is about controlling me. His PR means he can, but only if I allow it.

It is now nearly 7 years from when he walked out my child's life. I have changed his named by deedpoll and it is accepted everywhere but the passport. When I renewed his passport earlier in the year I tried to argue the case of his dad's absence and his name is accepted EVERYWHERE but they are very strict and said without any orders or permission he will need to travel on his birth name. This is frustrating as my child doesn't know their birth surname but it's not the end of the world as I now know, apart from the questioning I cant be stopped from travelling.

It's horrible when they have PR as they have so much control over you. I remember making a will years ago and being told because of his Dad's PR, if anything was to happen to me before my child is 18, his dad would automatically get 100% PR. I was distraught. Hopefully it's not as clear cut as that and circumstances are taken into account but the thought of him being ripped away from his family and support network is terrifying simply because his Dad is noted on a piece of paper. It's awful!

I didnt mean to explain my full experience (sorry) but an absent Dad retains PR to my child and a court would still uphold his wishes as he holds PR. I know of a family whose father is on the sex offenders list. He still has supervised access to his children (wtf)
It sounds like your ex will knowingly make it difficult for you unfortunately

Prollynot · 23/04/2022 11:20

Wow I recognise a lot of your sentiments, it is insane the impact their behaviour and abuse has had on us. I applied for a lives with CAO, because I need to be able to travel freely without his permission and because he threatened to take the kids from me so I need to have it in black and white that they live with me. I've heard horror stories of abusive dads taking their kids and police won't return them because it's a civil matter.

Your challenges re travel are a pain, I didn't know they actually couldn't stop you traveling though - that is helpful.

My situation is different from yours in that ex wants to be involved in kids' lives and doesn't admit to any of his abuse, he's making out he's just a loving dad and husband and I did all this to him out of spite. He had the audacity to send me an email saying he forgives me despite all the pain and heartache I caused him and the kids, and that he is such a good person for being able to do so! It would be laughable if it wasn't so scary. I have plenty of evidence though so I don't think that will hold up.

It doesn't bare thinking about what would happen if we weren't here, I'm sure he would ruin my kids future and stop access to my family.

Don't worry I know you weren't making out I'd be unsuccessful, but I recognise the challenges with court you mentioned and from what little I've heard of other cases it will be difficult.

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gogohm · 23/04/2022 11:30

It's worth talking to him and negotiating, big up his ego to get what you want even. You may never want him your lives again but say what he wants to hear, that you want him in his kids lives etc - then work up to a suggestion that sounds like he's getting good access but you move home. Remember means to an end. Going for a request to the court is likely to end in him digging his heels in but the court won't get involved if it's a mutually agreed parenting plan eg you bring them back in school holidays/he visits them and you provide accommodation for him for instance. I know a couple of women who have successfully used these tactics to go home, one has actually maintained a decent coparenting relationship despite emotional abuse in the marriage the others ex lost interest after 6 months and the kids have just occasional email contact as teens

Needanewadventure2021 · 23/04/2022 11:39

@Prollynot he sounds a narcissist. Just like my son's Dad. He sounds awful!
In terms of you needing that order it totally makes sense. I wanted one with my circumstances but in your case it does sound necessary.
Passport control can only stop you if there is a court order in place saying you cannot travel or he turns up kicking off. Even in the latter I don't think they can really stop you if nothing is legally in place but it would he an unpleasant start to your travels.

You may find though that a court order will only allow you to be out of the country for a certain amount of time and not move fully as it will be seen as denying access between your children and their dad (although it sounds like they would be better off away from him).

Makes me laugh how he tells you how he forgives you etc. I had exactly the same thing. Everything was me, my fault, I'd ruined our family etc but he is the better person and is willing to deal with me. He is thought of so highly in his profession. He actually does a fantastic job which i suppose is why he has such a high self importance of himself, HOWEVER I will only ever be able to judge him on his behaviour towards me and his child, so for that he will always belong in the gutter for me no matter how highly he is considered.

I really sympathise. My situation is hard but I sometimes think I have it easier than those having to deal with awful exs. Yours sounds like he will be a nightmare. What ages are your kids? Are they of an age where their thoughts will be considered? Mine is only 7 so unfortunately doesn't have any say.
It must be so hard not having support around you. I've recently been really poorly and though I somehow got through at times I was desperate to call on help knowing it was only 30 minutes away. To not have that backup must be so hard for you.

I really hope things work out for you x

Prollynot · 23/04/2022 12:12

Thanks so much for the replies. Yes I tried to agree on access with him but when Cafcass got involved they actually said they had safeguarding concerns and will recommend to a judge that they do a full section 7 report to assess risk, so I don't think I can agree on anything right now aside from supervised contact. I will have to wait and see outcome.

My kids are 9 and 11, I think their opinions will be considered? My oldest says she'd prefer not to see dad.

If I get the lives with CAO we can travel for 28 days without his permission, that will help at least to be able to see family if and when we need/want to. I know it won't allow me to move.

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Cauliflowersqueeze · 23/04/2022 12:15

From a school point of view, age 11-13 is about the last age it would be possible to start learning the language and be fluent enough to pass exams at 16+. They will manage.

Needanewadventure2021 · 23/04/2022 12:21

Surely a safeguarding concern regarding him will go in your favour? I hope so. Fingers crossed.

In terms of your children's ages, I'd like to think their opinions will stand for something but I've been told before it's around 13. Which is damn frustrating as children aren't stupid. Mine is 7 and rarely asks about his Dad. But when he does I ask if it's because he would like to know him? He very bluntly says why would I want to know someone who doesn't want to know me. Kids see more than we realise!

Prollynot · 23/04/2022 12:46

Yes it might go in my favour, I just don't really know what to expect. I don't think the kids can make the decision yet whether to have contact with dad, but Cafcass will take their opinion into consideration. My eldest expresses her feelings and wants quite clearly so hopefully that will help. I've been very careful not to influence this, don't want to be accused of parental alienation.

Your 7yo sounds v clued up, you can't help but worry about them but I've learned that I don't always have to have all the answers on how to deal with their dad - they just need to know that I am there for them, I understand and I have their best interests at heart.

Thanks for the comment re learning the language @Cauliflowersqueeze , that is good to know.

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Justmeandme19 · 22/05/2022 21:15

Tbh I think it's unlikely unless he agrees. If the father wants to see the children and will work with professionals he will be granted some access. I have a no contact order but they are rare.
So if he wants to see them I'm guessing he's not going to agree that you can all move abroad. As you have said the children don't speak the language and presumably England is all they know. I think it's unlikely your get a judge to agree that you can go abroad to live, but I may be wrong .

Prollynot · 22/05/2022 23:30

@Justmeandme19 you're right, he definitely won't agree. Having thought on it a bit more I think my feelings don't just stem from wanting to be close to my family. It is fear of what he will do next and facing the fact that I have to build up my life again here almost from scratch. For so many years he had us living in a bubble, no friends allowed, no playdates, no speaking my native language. So maybe my instinct now I'm out is to find security in my home country. On top of that I can't bear to think what would happen if I got seriously ill or worse, my poor children would suffer his emotional abuse alone.

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Anxiouslywondering · 12/05/2024 04:06

Hi there,

I know this post is fairly old and you may not still be active on here but on the off chance you are I felt compelled to reach out. What you are describing is my exact situation except that I have been here for 7 years not 15.
how did things end up for you? Where is your home country?

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