Daughter doesn't want to see dad - contact arrangements

[yummygummy]

So I have a bit of a dilemma with sorting out child arrangements with my ex. He was abusive towards me, not physical but emotional and it got quite bad. The abuse was not directed at the children but they were exposed to it and I'd say they suffered from the control too (no play dates etc). I started court proceedings for a lives with- child arrangements order but we are trying to settle out of court due to stress and financial drain. I am still insisting on a lives with CAO and put a plan forward for contact with dad: 2 months of supervised contact, then if no concerns raised 2 months day contact in the community and then overnight every other weekend if he has suitable accommodation. It is with his solicitor now. But my oldest daughter has increasingly been saying she doesn't want to see dad. They had one supervised contact session so far and she said she felt relieved and enjoyed it on the day, but since then she's adament she doesn't want to see him again. She says she's not scared, she feels awkward and nervous seeing him. She is 10 years old, and I think if I insist it goes through court he would still be awarded contact. Have any of you experienced this? I want her to have a say in the matter but I also think I can't stop contact altogether. If we agree on the lives with CAO now and she continues to not want to go, would I need to apply to vary the order? If I would talk to ex I think he would just blame me, I couldn't have a rational conversation with him about it.

If she said she didn't want to go back to school what would you do?

10 isn't old enough to make those sort of decisions.
At 12 and and secondary school my ds went nc with his df despite a court order..

Yes I get that she is too young to make the decision. She has just started to find her voice a bit, so I feel bad for saying she has to go. She keeps asking her counsellor in school why can't she decide, why doesn't her opinion matter. I tell her she may regret it when she is a little older if she cuts off all contact now, but that I promise to continue listening to her concerns and take them into account..

Hi yummygummy - I’ve only just joined Mumsnet for a reason so similar to your post. My daughter was only 1 when her dad and I split and so it was initially easy to sort contact although ex always managed to turn it into a drama that usually ended in (my) tears. Over time I had to remove myself from facilitating contact and his mum stepped in to help instead. We managed to start one overnight but dd has consistently said she doesn’t like spending the night because her dad is ‘uncomfortable’. Ex’s Mum also had to stop facilitating contact because it was causing her too much stress (because of his unpredictable moods) so we started using a contact centre for handovers. Through the contact centre we have moved to another overnight but dd is her insistent she doesn’t like it. I feel like if I insist then I’m just setting her up for a future where she falls into bad relationships herself because the adults around her who are supposed to protect her have ignored her boundaries. And also the thought of knowingly putting her in a situation that makes her sad and uncomfortable is gut-wrenching. It’s really really hard! She is only 4 so it’s so hard to really understand what’s going on in her head but I do trust when she says she doesn’t like it. I also completely recognise the ‘couldn’t have a rational conversation’ aspect and it makes it so hard! Ex and I only speak via email because verbal conversations always get derailed by hurtful/confusing/gaslighting comments from ex and I really feel like I can’t do the ‘dd has reservations about overnights’ convo with him via email. The contact centre are great but because they only see dd and ex for a few mins at each handover they don’t see the whole picture and I feel like I’m failing to get them to understand how controlling ex can be and how he may be emotionally controlling dd in quite a subtle way. Oooft!!! I know I can’t stop contact all together but sometimes I really just want to run away.
I realise your post was from a while ago. How are you getting on now?

@Letsplayseesaw Sorry I'm posting under another account but I'm the OP. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.

In the end it was kind of taken out of my hands by Cafcass. I mentioned in my post that I had started court proceedings but was trying to settle. Just as we were about to agree, Cafcass contacted us and did their safeguarding checks. They informed me that they felt the arrangements I was trying to agree on would not sufficiently safeguard the children. I decided to let things run through court and result is that ex has supervised contact in a centre only. If he decides to do a domestic abuse perpetrator programme, they will review if progression of contact is suitable. I was told court and Cafcass don't care about emotional abuse, but that is not my experience.

I still remain very conflicted about what is best for the children, but I think it is now in their fathers hands to show he is willing to work on himself for their benefit, we will see..

I do wish that I'd listened to my daughter's concerns more when I posted this. I was so convinced that the best thing for her would be to have a relationship with her father and it pains me to think she felt I wasn't in her corner.

Your daughter is very young, but she is making her feelings very clear and you do have your own concerns about ex's behaviour.

I think in your situation I would consider saying I am agreeing to daytime contact only, no overnights for the time being (due to the feelings your daughter has expressed and your own concerns around your ex's behaviour). If that changes then you can review again. It could mean that he'll take you to court, in which case you just want to make sure you keep a log of all instances where your daughter has expressed these feelings, and any emails/conversations with ex in which unreasonable/controlling behaviour was exhibited. It will really help you should things end up in court.

Thanks so much for replying - it's really kind of you to share your story. I am glad that cafcass acted and that the burden is no longer on you. I completely understand any pain that you might feel at the thought of maybe not listening to your daughter in the past but you must remember that you were doing what you thought best. There is so much out there in journals, articles, health advice etc. that tells us a relationship with both parents is the best outcome after a split up. I think there is space for more people to do some research into what that looks like in cases like yours and mine though.

I have spoken to the contact centre again and we've agreed to take it at my daughter's pace, which is a HUGE relief. They are encouraging me to go to mediation with my ex which in the past has been a total disaster (due to bullying) but again they've promised I can take it at my own pace and stop if I ever feel uncomfortable.They want us to try so that we can agree an easier way to communicate and see if that helps my daugher feel more relaxed about seeing her dad or talking to me about her dad. I try and be relaxed anyway but she knows I won't see him face to face or talk to him on the phone and that may be a barrier to her feeling comfortable with him. I'm in two minds - I don't want her to think that it's OK for people who hurt other people to be allowed back into their lives, but also she is allowed her own relationship with him as long as she is emotionally and physically safe. I will keep listening to her and see how she feels over time. And I won't agree to anything that makes me feel unsafe either.

I hope you and your family feel a bit more settled now you all have a fixed routine. xx

@Letsplayseesaw if your ex was abusive mediation is not recommended so please don't feel that you have to do it.

Thanks ☺️ I have asked for a chat with the mediator before I agree to anything x