Ongoing saga with ExH not seeing kids

[sal1223]

I've posted before just looking for some advice if anyone has any ideas that might help.
In a nutshell ExH has hardly seen the kids as he's 'not coping' he won't commit to seeing them regularly as he's trying to get better and is busy with work and hobbies to help with depression (all down to his own actions ie : infidelity/ divorce / drink & drugs) . I have spoken to him today and he's seeing them later for the first time in over 2 weeks because our cat died Monday .
I'm so fed up with him picking them up and dropping them when he feels like it - there's no court orders . The original agreement was see them here twice a week and once at weekends - but he's not maintained that so I've said we need to make a new agreement- which he says he can't do at the moment .
It feels like it is all on his terms just calling and asking to see them as I said 'as and when he feels like it' - I don't feel like I can say no you can't come because I know the kids want to see him . Feels like he's got me over a barrel really, it's infuriating

@Soul11Soul

Ok so it isn't up to him. Send him a text saying that whilst you sympathise with his mental health issues, an ad hoc arrangement is not in the best interests of the children. They will be made available every Wed evening and Sunday morning for example and if he can make it great and if not then that is up to him but he can no longer just appear at your door. If he chooses to go to court I'd be very very surprised. But if he does then that's ok because they will NOT issue an order that says contact can be whenever Dad says it is.

He is not letting you or the children move on with your lives. It's unfair.

Absolutely this. If he turns up out with the agreed times, don't let him in. If he phones, say it's not convenient.

Oh love, I've been in your shoes, it's soul destroying isn't it? And heartbreaking to see the kids so upset each time he let's them down.

Unfortunately even with a court order he cannot be forced to see the children. (And no judge would force dc to see a parent who didn't want to see them). Don't waste your money applying to court.

So it's all about taking back some of the control here - the kids need stability, and routine, and you all need to not be constantly waiting for his call as to when he feels he is capable of seeing the kids.

So. Text or email only from now on with regards to making arrangements for the dc. Do not slag him off to the dc - tempting, but don't. Begin with a message explaining how unsettling it is for the dc not to know when they will see him. Tell him that in order to maintain a routine FOR THE DC you are happy to facilitate contact at x times/days. Give him an opportunity to offer alternative set times/days for this new arrangement. Then, and this is the important part, stipulate that in the interests of the children's wellbeing, if he is not available for one contact, then their next contact will be the next designated time (unless dire emergency/pre-arranged). It will mean some discussion with the dc, and inevitable disappointment for them when he let's them down. (Yes, I've spent hours with my dc mopping up tears when daddy didn't turn up. It's shit. But ensure you are consistent with your message that daddy wasn't able to make it, you don't know why, you'll hopefully see him next time etc).

This way, the children know when contact should be. None of you are constantly waiting for a call.

You are NOT denying him contact with the dc. You ARE creating a workable routine which is in the best interests of the dc. He CANNOT claim to ANYONE that you are blocking contact (though he will try) and you are absolutely doing the right thing for the dc (and yourself). It is going to be tough. The kids will work it out eventually op - that you're helping them to maintain a positive relationship with their dad, but it is him that is letting them down.

I've been separated/divorced for 12 years. It took me 4 years to get to this point, and it was utterly soul destroying. As soon as I took back the control, he stopped messing us all around. Sadly the kids (now late teens) barely see him but have a realistic opinion about his parenting.

@Fuuuuuckit thanks that's really helpful . Yesterday I had every intention of putting my foot down but what with the kids so happy to seee him and the tears from him I feel I've been a push over yet again . We are supposed to be taking them out together at the weekend so after that I will say that I've had some advice and in the best interests of the children they'll be available Wednesdays and Sunday mornings - it's him that will have to work his hobbies and coping mechanisms around us

He's only been seeing them here as I can't trust him to be responsible for them without my supervision
Sorry that isn't good enough.

He isn't a proven danger to your joint children and many parents have depression and/or drink and drug problems.

If you want to get on with your own life without him you need to ensure once you have put in a schedule he:

1. sees the children on his own turf during his contact time, and
2. takes them out on his own during his contact time without you.

If you or him took the issue to mediation and then to court he would be expected to do this.

More importantly by him coming around to your children's home with you every single time for contact and you going out together as a family, you are not making it clear to your children that you are not getting back together. This is damaging for their long-term emotional well-being.

His depression isn't an excuse for him refusing to do this either as both your actions should be based on your children's best interests, not your own individual interests.

Also both children go together as a package unless the older one is 11+ and refuses to see him or arranges their own contact with him.

NO it's not an option at the moment - he is not responsible enough for them and I never know 100% if he's under the influence of something , he's also fallen asleep during contact twice . With my youngest's additional needs I'm not risking it until I see a change in his behaviour etc

Can only echo what others have said. Consistency and routine are key. It is in the child's best interest to have structure and not guessing if dad is turning up. Imagine always being on edge hoping today is the day he will put in an appearance.

You can't make any plans or commitments. He is stopping you from living your own life.

I would email him and say you understand he has difficult days but he is an adult and a parent and needs to priorities the children's well being. He is welcome to the house to see the children on x day at x time. You understand if he feels he can't make it but contact will not be rescheduled. You have your own plans and engagements that will not be rearranged.

And you suggest if he doesn't like the arrangement he is free to get his own advice.

Time for clear boundaries. I know how hard this is. I got a lot of fall out from this action. I'm absolutely sure my ex was down the pub telling anyone how I stop him from seeing the children. You need to stop caring about what others think and just keep saying routine is important for the children.

Thanks this is the right thing to do - I'm going to get this weekend out the way and when he asks to see them next I'm going to say yes they will be available as follows x

@sal1223

NO it's not an option at the moment - he is not responsible enough for them and I never know 100% if he's under the influence of something , he's also fallen asleep during contact twice . With my youngest's additional needs I'm not risking it until I see a change in his behaviour etc

The likelihood of you seeing a change in his behaviour is very very slim. Why would he change his behaviour if he has no real incentive. He gets to see you and the children in his old home whilst "under the influence" or asleep and you do all the actual parenting.

It also really doesn't sound particularly healthy for your children to be seeing him when he is under the influence or much fun if he is asleep.

What would happen if you insisted on using a contact centre?

If I can't tell when he's under the influence then I doubt they can - or if he's had a skinful the night before . When he has been to see them this past few months there's been such a gap inbetween times that they're excited and full of things to talk about / show him and he's equally interested and engaging - he fell asleep twice last year after he'd called in after work - this caused a big row and hasn't happened since.
I think he'd react very badly to the suggestion of a contact centre , especially after the speech last night about getting back on his feet and rebuilding his life etc . I also think that because he's previously mentioned not wanting to be alive anymore (after I ended things) that even though I don't think he would do anything - it's planted that seed now . It's hard to know what's going on really - I know he's been signed off with depression but is back to work now .
Plan is like I said - when he mentions seeing them next I'm going to set some boundaries and see if he'll respect them , if he doesn't and still wants everything his way then he won't get to see them as regularly

The Courts can put in an order no drinking when your ex is looking after his kids. To be honest though I wouldn't want to leave my child either if he's falling asleep!

My friend requested in her child arrangement order her ex to do an alcohol test too although she did have to pay for it herself.

I agree the poster saying

He FaceTimed them last night before bed , had clearly been drinking and proceeded to take a puff of a big joint , I tried to cut the call short but kids were excited to speak to him . 'Noooo mummy we haven't finished talking!?'
I'm so p*sssd off - what a jerk . I will contact him today and tell him how unacceptable it is but it won't make a difference . He says one thing, spins the yarn about sorting himself out and then continues doing whatever he likes

I really sympathise with you OP, I'm in a very similar position to you. Did he cry in front of the dc? My ex does this too, I tell him he needs to keep himself in control of his emotions for the 2-4 hours (if that!) a week he sees them, it's emotional abuse or coercion in our case and absolutely not on.
2-4 hours a week is also all my ex is capable of holding solid interest with dc.
I agree with the plan you've came up with, having an open door policy is draining and I find it soul destroying to be hanging around waiting for them to turn up so I now just get on with stuff and if he asks to come I just say whether or not we'll be home or what time etc. it can still take him 3 hours to arrive! I just don't even tell dc now, I just say he's busy at work (lie mostly) and he will let me know if he can make it for a visit. But I never tell them about planned contact because most of the time he's late or doesn't turn up at all, so more upset for dc.
I get accused of stopping him seeing dc too which is maddening.
Good luck op.

@sal1223

He FaceTimed them last night before bed , had clearly been drinking and proceeded to take a puff of a big joint , I tried to cut the call short but kids were excited to speak to him . 'Noooo mummy we haven't finished talking!?' I'm so p*sssd off - what a jerk . I will contact him today and tell him how unacceptable it is but it won't make a difference . He says one thing, spins the yarn about sorting himself out and then continues doing whatever he likes

So stop letting him. No more face time. Be strong for your kids. Yes of course they want to see their dad but that's not ok.

@sal1223

He FaceTimed them last night before bed , had clearly been drinking and proceeded to take a puff of a big joint , I tried to cut the call short but kids were excited to speak to him . 'Noooo mummy we haven't finished talking!?' I'm so p*sssd off - what a jerk . I will contact him today and tell him how unacceptable it is but it won't make a difference . He says one thing, spins the yarn about sorting himself out and then continues doing whatever he likes

Don't waste your breath.

He's an adult and should know his behaviour is inappropriate.

You need to act to enforce boundaries to deal with his poor behaviour.

So as he can't stop being drunk and smoking it is phone calls on loud speaker only.

You may need to have random 'internet problems' to start with to enforce why there is no facetime/zoom/video calls.

Also get - ask people you know for - old mobile so you can get a PAYG sim for these calls. That way he can't just ring when he wants.

Block him on your own mobile so his calls go to voicemail when you don't want to talk to him. Also block him on all apps.

I have msg'd this morning and said the days the kids will be available , and that his suggestion of total flexibility isn't an option .
And that it was unacceptable to FaceTime them like that yesterday so that won't be happening again . Ffs I wish things and arrangements were normal like other people have ☹️

Keep those messages and his replies.

What about taking them to soft play on a Sunday morning, if he chooses to join you he can. Or McDonald's for lunch. He has to get there on his own and you and the boys can leave when needed.

I think you need to have an age appropriate conversation with the boys. Not sure how old they are or what they know sorry. But along the lines of daddy needs to make good choices like we all do.

But don't let him be in your house any more, he's. It actually doing anything positive to see his children. He's coasting like a teenager, seeing what he can get away with.

My EX used to try the dropping in when he felt like it. It took a couple of months of me refusing to allow it before he got the message that he needed to plan it in advance. My next step is to instruct a solicitor to propose a regular contact schedule, as he'll never do it on his own.

You need to put boundaries in with your EX OP. Until you do that, he will continue not to step up as he has no incentive. He is also using his lack of capability as a form of controlling your time; you aren't able to plan anything because you never know when he'll turn up, which is not on.

I'm feeling a bit better about it all that I've made it clear now that it'll be set times . He probably won't stick to them tho so will end up not seeing a great deal of them .
Thanks for the replies everyone x

Don't forget you are looking after the children's best interests and not that of him. You do not owe him anything. If you do set times I think you need to allow the visits every other week or make some exceptions to allow you to include any weeks away / holiday you may like to take with the children.

Yes I've said that those days are what we will aim for but occasionally there will be a variation due to circumstances - and if he can maintain regular contact over time we can talk again at a later date about increasing contact ie let's see if he can manage bare minimum

He's saying due to his depression and trying to get well he can't commit to the same days every week

Due to the children being children, they need consistency, and unpredictability doesn't work for them.

@TronDeReplay yep 🙌

If I call you to arrange seeing them with at least 24 hours notice, I don’t why this cannot work. Also you can call me to ask if I would like to see them it not hard . It doesn't have to be regimented .

So yeah he still doesn't get it 😅

Anyone know what kind of narcissist this is?

For context I've just been reiterating that contact needs to be regular as that's best for the kids and he can see them on x day etc

''I am not playing your game if you want to fall out and make it difficult to see my children then I’ll forget it and won’t bother with you or them again, you are not going to tell me what to do anymore it has to be mutually agreed but I know you won’t because that just way you are- I have lost everything ''

*I did say he threw everything away having the affair , didn't 'lose' everything

''I just want to see my kids, I didn’t throw it away I stopped myself from killing myself and told you the truth''

This is emotional abuse isn't it ? 😳

Just stick to your guns. ‘This is what’s best for the children.’ I hope you’ve got in writing to him that he may not smoke joints or be visibly under an influence while talking to them on FaceTime!