Awaiting mediation - can I take child away in uk for 6 days to visit family?

[newlyseparated]

Hi, never posted here before.
me and my ex broke up in October, it's all been very hostile and unpleasant. We have a 2 year old and I'm pregnant (we broke up because he said he didn't want it but now he is backtracking on that). He's demanding 50/50 custody even though currently he doesn't have a suitable place for a child to live so he's saying he should look after them 50% of the time at my house until he can provide a suitable home. There's no way I believe he should ever have 50% custody to be honest, I have always done 90% of the care and have paid all the bills and provided the home etc and I definitely do not want him in my house 50% of the time at the moment as I can't bear having him around. He wants to come every day but for my own wellbeing I just don't think that is reasonable and I don't see the point of him coming for a very short period of time which puts DD through handovers for the sake of 30 min or an hour. So I've suggested he see her 2 daytimes a week (9-5) and then after nursery another evening. I think this is pretty generous to be honest as he never did anything like that amount of childcare and I am putting up with him being in my house 3 times a week after he has been totally awful to me!

Anyway, my main question is that my brother just had a baby (a new cousin for my DD) and I want to take my little girl to visit them for 5-6 days - but this would involve my ex not seeing her for that length of time and it's not really practical for me to 'pay back' the time he misses without her being away from me for too long which would not be good for her right now as she's become super clingy to me since we split. We are planning to go to mediation because we just can't have any kind of non confrontational conversation about access at the moment. But he's dragging his feet and taking ages over arranging it. Can I take her away to see her new cousin for a week without his permission or will I look bad for this? It's in the UK

Yes you can.
Instead of him coming to your house, why can’t he take his daughter out for the day?
Why can’t he take her to his house for the day?

Yes you can. Also you don't have to have anyone in your house you don't want there. If he wants contact with his child he picks her up and takes her elsewhere. Why on earth would he think he could enter your home. No judge would ever order this.

@Wishitsnows

Yes you can. Also you don't have to have anyone in your house you don't want there. If he wants contact with his child he picks her up and takes her elsewhere. Why on earth would he think he could enter your home. No judge would ever order this.

He is in a flatshare with a random man he knows nothing about so I'm not too keen on him taking her there! Yes I would much prefer he took her out for the day but he is very unhappy that I asked him to move out and he feels entitled to be in the house with her as it is the house we lived together in (although I paid all the rent hence why I asked him to move out once he made it clear the relationship was over even though he wanted to carry on living here with us broken up and me still paying for everything!). I was trying to be reasonable as I don't want her out if it's raining etc and he had nowhere to take her. But not every day. Thanks, good to know I can take her away.

He is in a flatshare with a random man he knows nothing about so I'm not too keen on him taking her there!

You have absolutely no say on who he lives with and whether he takes your joint child to stay there unless the person has known convictions for child abuse/cruelty.

If you meet a new partner and they decide to move in in 2 years time would you like him to say you can't?

When you split up with your other child's parent you both lose all control on what the other parent does with your joint child in their time with the child.

As an aside most single adults don't want to live with someone who brings their children/siblings who are children round regularly as it put restrictions on how they themselves live their lives.

@RedWingBoots

He is in a flatshare with a random man he knows nothing about so I'm not too keen on him taking her there!

You have absolutely no say on who he lives with and whether he takes your joint child to stay there unless the person has known convictions for child abuse/cruelty.

If you meet a new partner and they decide to move in in 2 years time would you like him to say you can't?

When you split up with your other child's parent you both lose all control on what the other parent does with your joint child in their time with the child.

As an aside most single adults don't want to live with someone who brings their children/siblings who are children round regularly as it put restrictions on how they themselves live their lives.

I didn't say he couldn't take her there, I said I'd prefer he didn't until he knows this guy a bit better and that's why I have accepted him seeing her in my house even though it upsets me having to have him in my space. I don't think it's unreasonable at all. And I wouldn't introduce her to a partner until I knew them reasonably well either so I don't think that's really comparable. I don't think it's true that you lose all control, I think you should still expect each other to take reasonable precautions to ensure the child is in a suitable environment.

@RedWingBoots

He is in a flatshare with a random man he knows nothing about so I'm not too keen on him taking her there!

You have absolutely no say on who he lives with and whether he takes your joint child to stay there unless the person has known convictions for child abuse/cruelty.

If you meet a new partner and they decide to move in in 2 years time would you like him to say you can't?

When you split up with your other child's parent you both lose all control on what the other parent does with your joint child in their time with the child.

As an aside most single adults don't want to live with someone who brings their children/siblings who are children round regularly as it put restrictions on how they themselves live their lives.

Where has the OP said that?

Projecting much?

She's bending over backwards to help him out. And you don't have to OP. I wouldn't want him in the house either is there a third place?

As for your OP question it seems perfectly reasonable but you should probably get legal advice?

I don't think it's true that you lose all control,
You do.

You cannot control another adult and if it's one you have been in a relationship with you need to be very very careful.

This works for him as well.

So while he cannot force you to let him see your joint children in your home, you cannot prevent him taking your joint children to his home.

This is because he has parental responsibility for your joint children like you do.

I think you should still expect each other to take reasonable precautions to ensure the child is in a suitable environment.

This is expected of any adult who has responsibility for children.

Unfortunately when you split up you no longer have to agree with each other what is a suitable environment for your children.

He is being massively cheeky.

50/50 means 50% of nights and not just the waking hours and he's definitely not entitled to have that time at your house.

Yanbu being uneasy that he has a flat are but if you're too accommodating then you risk him taking the piss and not moving out because visits to yours means he can keep an eye on your whereabouts and have someone who cleans and possibly feeds him too. Is he contributing some child maintenance ?

You would be reasonable to take the kids away but what's his extended family situation like ? Are his local to him or is he likely to want a 5/6 day trip away too?

@cherryonthecakes

He is being massively cheeky.

50/50 means 50% of nights and not just the waking hours and he's definitely not entitled to have that time at your house.

Yanbu being uneasy that he has a flat are but if you're too accommodating then you risk him taking the piss and not moving out because visits to yours means he can keep an eye on your whereabouts and have someone who cleans and possibly feeds him too. Is he contributing some child maintenance ?

You would be reasonable to take the kids away but what's his extended family situation like ? Are his local to him or is he likely to want a 5/6 day trip away too?

Yes I think ultimately he will want 50% of everything but he's financially useless so he can't afford the kind of place it would be suitable to have a child at the moment, hence him wanting me to give him the time at mine. I have no idea at what point he'd be able to afford a decent place but it works for me as I don't want her going away overnight at the moment as she's still so little and not at all used to being away from me. He doesn't pay any maintenance and he does really take the piss he leaves the house a state and leaves all the radiators on etc - it was bad enough tidying up after him when we were a couple, no way I'm doing it now! But it does mean he gets to control my space as he keeps hiding some of her toys and obviously he knows exactly what me and her are doing all the time we have no freedom.

He definitely would want a trip away to see his family but I just don't think she is ready for that, she's never been away from me and she's only 2 so the idea of him taking her for that length of time is just too much. It's all very recent too so she needs some time to adjust to the new situation before I can even contemplate her being away overnight. Also my baby is due in a few months so I really want her to feel stable and secure before then as that will be another massive change for her

Do you have someone who can look after your older child when you have your second child ?

@cherryonthecakes

Do you have someone who can look after your older child when you have your second child ?

You mean when I'm actually in labour? It kind of depends! If it doesn't decide to come too quickly then I can get someone from my family here in 2 hours and my mum will come stay for a week or two when it comes to help. I also have a lot of friends locally who would no doubt help out in an emergency situation. He isn't going to be involved in the birth and I don't want him anywhere near to be honest so I'm going to plan for making sure I am not dependent on him. I'm hoping for a home birth so that my little girl can be there.

Hi @newlyseparated

To answer your original question, you can just go and see your family, assuming they're in the UK.
I would just give him formal notice in an email or text. If he requests making up of his time, explain that this is inappropriate. Holiday time is not "made up".

Overnights are generally ordered if this went to court at the age your child is. So though you would prefer otherwise, bear this in mind.

His accommodation if only one other tenant, probably wouldn't be deemed inappropriate for overnights. And a court may well take notice of the fact that many single parents who are not the primary caregiver, struggle to afford a property of the appropriate size for eow contact etc. If they did plenty of parents would not get overnights...

If he has the child overnight, however, he should be liable for the childcare costs etc. And if he did push for 5050, then he wouldn't be liable for paying child maintenance.

But make sure that you remain the recipient for the child benefit as this is a gateway benefit should you ever need it, as it increases the allowances etc and would allow you to be higher priority for housing etc in terms of additional bedroom etc.

Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I think if it went to court I would have a strong argument for not starting overnight stays yet as he himself has said his accommodation is inappropriate and there are some other reasons too. He is being extremely difficult about everything - he insists on being ‘paid back’ every minute he misses regardless of the reason even if it was his fault he missed seeing her! And it’s doubly frustrating since we actually don’t have any agreement on the level of contact so I don’t even know what exactly I am paying back. We are going to go to mediation but he’s also being very difficult about which mediator and objecting to my every suggestion. It’s exhausting to be honest and he has done so many things that just show he is acting entirely selfishly and not thinking about our child’s best interests at all. I am really tired of it all I wish I could just have some space from him but instead he’s constantly demanding and I’m having to interact with him all the time and I’m feeling very vulnerable at the moment. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone

@newlyseparated

Thank you. I appreciate the advice. I think if it went to court I would have a strong argument for not starting overnight stays yet as he himself has said his accommodation is inappropriate and there are some other reasons too. He is being extremely difficult about everything - he insists on being ‘paid back’ every minute he misses regardless of the reason even if it was his fault he missed seeing her! And it’s doubly frustrating since we actually don’t have any agreement on the level of contact so I don’t even know what exactly I am paying back. We are going to go to mediation but he’s also being very difficult about which mediator and objecting to my every suggestion. It’s exhausting to be honest and he has done so many things that just show he is acting entirely selfishly and not thinking about our child’s best interests at all. I am really tired of it all I wish I could just have some space from him but instead he’s constantly demanding and I’m having to interact with him all the time and I’m feeling very vulnerable at the moment. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone

OK. Given that, my advice would be: Email (you need the paper trail) stating that given you have agreed to mediation and suggested mediators, of which all of he has declined that you have set the contact as xyz at abc time due to his not being willing to commit to any pattern, which is not in the best interests of the child. If you are late, then the time is not extended and if more than 20 minutes late the contact for that session is cancelled. I'd also add that there is no making up of contact time, however, I am willing to try and be flexible about changes if I can facilitate them and they are requested a minimum of 14 days in advance.

This shows you're not holding things up. You're trying to have consistency. Yet trying to be flexible but not a walk over.

@ChoiceMummy Thanks. I am really struggling with it as he doesn't think I get to make the rules... he thinks he has as much right to decide what happens as I do so when I try to lay ground rules like that he just doesn't accept them. I am hoping we will start the mediation soon although I'm not optimistic he will agree with any outcome if it isn't exactly what he wants. Thanks for your advice, you seem very clued up on managing this situation!

[quote newlyseparated]@ChoiceMummy Thanks. I am really struggling with it as he doesn't think I get to make the rules... he thinks he has as much right to decide what happens as I do so when I try to lay ground rules like that he just doesn't accept them. I am hoping we will start the mediation soon although I'm not optimistic he will agree with any outcome if it isn't exactly what he wants. Thanks for your advice, you seem very clued up on managing this situation![/quote]
It will be hard but by distancing yourself and only discussing anything in email will help.

If he discussed things thy are irrelevant or you've already stated, I'd either ignore or state, please see my email on xxxxx re your last comment or whatever and keep saying the same thing like a broken record!
. Good luck.