CMS proof | Mumsnet

Wangela · 2021-11-02T11:22:24+00:00

Is it normal to ask for “evidence” of income from the paying parent? I have a private arrangement at the minute but I’ve asked for evidence of the EXS pay so I can use the CMS calculator. He’s point blank told me that he won’t hand this over. Basically saying I’m asking because I think he’s lying so if I don’t like it I can go through CMS and just end up with a deduction. Admittedly he’s always paid, I have had evidence previously and he has regular contact. So I am suspicious about why he won’t hand this over?

3peassuit · 02/11/2021 12:45

I think it’s normal to ask to see a payslip or a P60. What’s he got to hide?

BananaPB · 02/11/2021 13:08

As CM is a percentage of income they'd need proof to make the correct calculation

unicornsarereal72 · 02/11/2021 14:10

You don't have to go through the deductions route.

CMS can gather the information and give the paying parent the option of paying directly the amount agreed.

If he chooses not to pay you directly. Then CMS will deduct directly from his employer. He will pay a further 20% charge for arranging this and you will be deducted 4%.

Ruth58d · 05/11/2021 17:23

He's probably concerned it's an invasion of privacy. Would you be willing to share your payslips in the interest of being open and honest with each other? Then he (and his partner) can see how much you earn too.

sandy354 · 05/11/2021 23:43

You can go to cms, ask them to collect the info, calculate the payment then he can still pay it directly to you.

There's a one off fee of £20 but no monthly % if you both agree that he continues to pay directly into your bank from his.

I've just done this last month. CMS checked it all out via HMRC and I got a letter from CMS saying, "he earns £x per week so his CMS payment should by £y per week. We will review in 12 months time"

sandy354 · 05/11/2021 23:45

@Ruth58d

He's probably concerned it's an invasion of privacy. Would you be willing to share your payslips in the interest of being open and honest with each other? Then he (and his partner) can see how much you earn too.

He has no need to know what she earns as it's irrelevant to CMS payments. His salary is very relevant so she has a right to know.

If he doesn't agree, CMS Will send you a letter confirming it anyway.

My exH hand changed jobs and didn't tell me his new salary. I requested a CMS review and payments have increased by over 60% - so I guess I was right not to trust him!!

Rummikub · 05/11/2021 23:45

Can cms check first then ask if wish to arrange payments or keep current arrangement?

RedWingBoots · 08/11/2021 20:07

@Rummikub

Can cms check first then ask if wish to arrange payments or keep current arrangement?

The CMS amount is the minimum he needs to pay.

However if he is paying you more, you go to the CMS you will piss him off so he may decide to pay you only the CMS money and use the extra money directly on the kids.

TeachesOfPeaches · 08/11/2021 20:11

It's a gamble because if you go via CMS and the payment is less you might just end up with that or it could be significantly more. How much is he paying currently ?

mineofuselessinformation · 08/11/2021 20:23

Well, you could always experiment with the CMS calculator to work out what pay he would need to get to pay you the amount he is at the moment. (Remember to fill in the relevant gross or net pay - I haven't looked at it for a long while.)
See what you think as to whether or not his pay seems likely.
Then you could decide to go for CMS if you think he's pulling a fast one. (You could also report him to HMRC if you think he's doing something dodgy.)
Also remember that if he is a director of a company he needs to declare dividends as well as salary.

Rummikub · 08/11/2021 21:06

@TeachesOfPeaches

It's a gamble because if you go via CMS and the payment is less you might just end up with that or it could be significantly more. How much is he paying currently ?

He hasn’t paid for almost 2 years

Rummikub · 08/11/2021 21:08

He runs his own business and won’t tell me how much he is earning. It’s very frustrating. Yet is buying himself all kinds of high end stuff!

Rummikub · 08/11/2021 21:09

In ops position I guess I wouldn’t rock the boat

unicornsarereal72 · 08/11/2021 21:15

If he is self employed he will hide his income. I wouldn't hold your breath. I know this is frustrating. My ex did this. Changed jobs. Worked short contracts. Moved houses. I've had over three years asking him to pay. He is now but only because his new gf has 4 kids and he is either doing the super dad routine to show off. Or seen how it on the other side when nrp are shit.

I don't say this to discourage you. Use the powers we have as rubbish as they are. But don't expect anything to be solved quickly.

Rummikub · 08/11/2021 21:58

This is exactly what I was thinking.
Appeal to his better nature

OP stick with what your getting unless he’s salaried! Esp as he is paying regularly

Ruth58d · 08/11/2021 22:38

@sandy354

He isn't paying via CMS though. He's paying an amount agreed between the two of them and he's paying reliably.

If the RP feels the amount is not reasonable then she is welcome to open a CMS case and see what the outcome is. Presumably the OP's ex would rather this than have to disclose personal information prematurely and unnecessarily.

I ask again, theoretically, what would you have to hide in sharing details of pay and benefits with your ex? Doesn't it help paint a fuller picture of who has what resources available to provide for a shared child? rather than one having to disclose it and the other making them guess?

In that respect I believe that yes it is an invasion of privacy. Obviously if he wasn't paying or was paying a ridiculous amount it would be worth pursuing but I'm not sure that this is the case in this situation.

Waahingwashingwashing · 08/11/2021 22:43

I wouldn’t give my ex a copy of my payslips. Not ever.

I’d go via CMS and agree an amount with them and I’d happily furnish them with payslips but no way ever would I share that directly with my ex

TeachesOfPeaches · 09/11/2021 06:28

@Rummikub in the OP it says he has always paid

Rummikub · 09/11/2021 08:28

Yes so it makes sense to continue.

sandy354 · 09/11/2021 14:30

[quote Ruth58d]@sandy354

He isn't paying via CMS though. He's paying an amount agreed between the two of them and he's paying reliably.

If the RP feels the amount is not reasonable then she is welcome to open a CMS case and see what the outcome is. Presumably the OP's ex would rather this than have to disclose personal information prematurely and unnecessarily.

I ask again, theoretically, what would you have to hide in sharing details of pay and benefits with your ex? Doesn't it help paint a fuller picture of who has what resources available to provide for a shared child? rather than one having to disclose it and the other making them guess?

In that respect I believe that yes it is an invasion of privacy. Obviously if he wasn't paying or was paying a ridiculous amount it would be worth pursuing but I'm not sure that this is the case in this situation.[/quote]
I guess if there's a chance she's getting higher than the mandatory CMS amount, means it's a different story.

Personally I'd never share my income details with my ex as it's none of his business. If the non-RP has less contact with the child, the amount of CMS he is die to pay is the same irrelevant of the RPs income.

I earn significantly more than my DD's dad but that's none of his business. He created a child and should be financially contributing to her upbringing regardless of what I earn!! The money isn't for me, it's for my DD. I finance my own lifestyle but I ensure every penny he contributes is spent on DD to meet her needs.

So why is it's my exHs business what I now earn? It wouldn't change anything. His earnings
would impact his maintenance payments hence it is my business

senorafridgidaire · 09/11/2021 14:57

The thing is, you have a private arrangement. Which is an amount agreed between the two of you, that he is happy to pay, and you are (or have been until now) happy to receive. For some people this will be less than CSA, for some it will be more - it all depends what other factors are in the mix (e.g. I have a friend who has 50/50 and her ex still pays her an agreed amount of CM even though he doesn't have to, which is less than CSA. He earns a lot more than her and he wants his child to benefit from that in both homes).

As the paying parent, once we'd made a private arrangement I would find it quite invasive and annoying to then be asked of 'proof' of my earnings - it's not that kind of arrangement and you're not entitled to copies of payslips. so you can check he's paying the 'correct' amount - the correct amount is the amount that you've already agreed on. If you feel you need more money to meet DCs needs, you need to approach it from that angle and have an adult discussion with him about it to see if you can agree on a higher amount.

If you want to go down the CSA route, then they can access details of his earnings direct from HMRC, and make a calculation based on their formula. But be prepared, if the amount is lower, for him to drop it to their minimum amount.

You can't have it both ways - you either agree a 'fair' amount between you based on whatever factors / personal circumstances need to be taken into consideration, or you go down the CSA route and get them to 'officially' calculate the amount he should pay as a minimum. If you do that you can't then make him pay more if the amount is lower than you expected or than you're receiving now.

whattheactualfudgecakes · 02/12/2021 23:29

@Rummikub

Can cms check first then ask if wish to arrange payments or keep current arrangement?

Does either party need to keep evidence that payments are being made of own arrangements made outside of CMs?

Or is sending the funds through bank marked as cms ok?

Cally23 · 02/12/2021 23:38

I tried to get an annual proof of earnings factored into my financial order from my ex but he point blank refused. Just think it would be easier all round to be transparent. Some friends managed to get this into their FO.

I get the privacy issue but it's also irrirating when you feel you can't trust them. My ex is a lying liar who lies but I'm also worried to go to CMS for a calculation just incase it is lower or he will retaliate somehow! I probably will in a few years just for the peace of mind.