CMS woes - is this their failing?

[PeeAche]

Hi everyone. I'm the dreaded second wife, looking for some advice from those on the other side of the awful CMS

I'm lovely though, honestly!

My DH and his ex have awful trouble with CMS and Collect and Pay. At one point, the CMS reduced his direct debits to £0 because HMRC hadn't shared his latest tax statement (had same job for years, nothing changed - not sure wtf went wrong) DH appealed with payslips / bank statements etc. Eventually a decision maker at CMS righted the wrong and then he had a back dated amount to pay off of about £2k. (3 months worth)

All the while, his ex and the kids had just been without his maintenance! His ex doesn't work so they must have been quite hard up. (DH did offer it to her directly but she declined, saying the CMS advised her to not complicate things by taking money directly!?)

Generally, she does prefer to use C&P, instead of Direct Pay. She has other kids (from different dads, not my DH's) and this is just her preferred method.

Anyway, DH obviously had this £2k put to one side so he paid it via the web portal and assumed it would go straight to ex. And normal service then resumed with monthly payments (about £700 pcm)

A few days ago she mentioned to him that he's still in arrears because she hasn't received a lump sum. He logged in and checked and he's definitely not in arrears! She does think her monthly payments have increased so now we're all trying to figure out if if the CMS are spreading the lump sum out for her? Does anyone know if they do this? DH rang CMS and, after being on hold for 40 mins, got told they can't discuss the RP's finances. She hasn't called them yet but she's sent screen shots of her own log in and it is incomprehensible!

It seems really dire if the CMS left her with no money for 3 months and now they're sitting on this lump sum. Has anyone else had this before?

For the avoidance of drip feeding, my DH has 2 primary school aged children with her and they spend around 100 nights per year with us. He's employed and his calculations are done via HMRC data at his annual review (in February I think). This is one of dozens of issues they've both had with CMS over the years and he's thinking about submitting a formal complaint.

Thanks

He's paid and that is documents through the Cms. It's up to her to sort it out her end. I wouldn't get involved any further he has for filled his obligation.

They only release it to her on the schedule that was set to collect the arrears so she will have to wait for it unfortunately. Been there with them

She called them. They're staggering it over the next 2 years. Unbelievable.

I’d say what is unbelievable is that your DH left his kids without that money for three months and is still happy to be in arrears.

If he was regularly paying around £700 a month (that is A LOT of maintenance) and his job hadn’t changed then why did he think it was OK for them to suddenly go without money? And why not pay it over now? What happened to the missing £2k? Has he got it in the bank?

The fact that payments are made via the CMS and not just between parents suggests he may have been unreliable before.

That’s something for you to think about, OP. Would you like this to happen to you if you split in future?

Why is he agreeing to collect and pay which costs him an extra 20% and her an extra 4% just because it’s her “ preferred method” ? That’s crazy.

Why doesn’t he just pay her direct and then you won’t need to use the CMS at all? It’s very easy to work out the minimum amount using the online calculator, though of course many NRP pay more than the care minimum.

@TorringtonDean

I’d say what is unbelievable is that your DH left his kids without that money for three months and is still happy to be in arrears.

If he was regularly paying around £700 a month (that is A LOT of maintenance) and his job hadn’t changed then why did he think it was OK for them to suddenly go without money? And why not pay it over now? What happened to the missing £2k? Has he got it in the bank?

The fact that payments are made via the CMS and not just between parents suggests he may have been unreliable before.

That’s something for you to think about, OP. Would you like this to happen to you if you split in future?

I don't understand. He doesn't have the money, the CMS have it.

He really wasn't happy to see them go without. He offered her the money directly over and over again during the 3 month period and she declined it.

@GenderAtheist he doesn't have her bank details. She won't let any of her exes have them. C&P is what she insists upon as the receiving parent. It costs a lot of money but it's something we gave up on a long time ago.

DH and she don't have an acrimonious relationship but she does with her other ex who was abusive towards her.

@torringtondean did you read the OP post or just jump in with your own narrative?

He offered to pay direct, the ex declined, he doesn't have the money CMS do, he is not in arrears. What exactly do you expect him to do?

CMs spread the arrears payments out as far as I can work out, so it's added to the regular payments.

I've never received a lump sum from them (chance would be a fine thing).

OP your husband can choose to not use collect and pay, it is optional for the paying parents, If there is not a history of missing payments then it really isn’t up to her. It’s a 3 strike and you collect and pay system.

Why would your husband just accept paying over £100 to the CMS service because his ex says so?! Crazy. If she wants the money then she will have to hand over bank details simple as that.

I don’t understand this. So the CMS took nothing for three months, then he paid a lump sum but she didn’t get it? How strange. I can’t understand why anyone would go via the CMS if they could pay direct and make sure their kids were fed. Unless someone has been an unreliable payer and that’s why the mum prefers CMS? My ex may be a shit dad but he has paid the CMS rate without needing the state to intervene.

@frazzledasarock

CMs spread the arrears payments out as far as I can work out, so it's added to the regular payments.

I've never received a lump sum from them (chance would be a fine thing).

Yep, she finally got through to someone there and they told her it's already over 2 years. CMS in general is such a frustrating system. My best friend has been getting £1.40 per week for her little boy for about 9 months now, because her ex is hiding money. Makes my blood boil.

Anyway, in our situation, DH and his ex are now discussing direct pay. I think this might be the straw that broke the camel's back and she's more up for it but god only knows what this would mean for the money they're already holding!

Thanks everyone.

I’m not sure you’ve got the whole story. The RP cannot just insist on C&P. The NRP is only put on C&P after missing payments without good reason.

I dont understand how he is being made to use collect and pay. That doesnt happen.

He is paying an extra 20% in fees. CMS cannot force him to use collect and pay unless he failed to make payments first. That's how they work.

When a case is opened, it is direct pay. If he fails to pay, he can be moved to collect and pay. After a set time, he will be allowed to move back to direct pay and is only moved to collect and pay again if he fails to make payments.

Why are you paying an extra 20% when you dont need to? It isnt up to her and what she prefers.

Call CMS, move to direct pay. Tell them to pay over the money they are holding for him or refund it to him.

@TorringtonDean

I don’t understand this. So the CMS took nothing for three months, then he paid a lump sum but she didn’t get it? How strange. I can’t understand why anyone would go via the CMS if they could pay direct and make sure their kids were fed. Unless someone has been an unreliable payer and that’s why the mum prefers CMS? My ex may be a shit dad but he has paid the CMS rate without needing the state to intervene.

My DH is one of 3 dads she is supposed to receive money from. From what I understand, one of them is a real piece of shit and was abusive. She's a really anxious and vulnerable woman.

Honestly, I bloody hate the collect and pay nonsense but it's not my money or my ex and I let my DH make his own choices for his kids.

The RP can't just insist on C&P? I thought they could...

No. They cannot.

Either your husband is lieing to you and he failed to make payments initially so that's why they moved to collect and pay, or he requested it himself.

It isnt her decision. CMS initial stance is direct pay. It's actually very difficult to get them to move to collect and pay and they move them back to direct pay after a while.

Your husband would have to have asked for it himself, or someone working at CMS asked him and he agreed. Which is madness.

He needs to call and have it moved to direct pay.

What the actual fuck.

To be honest, the CMS are a shambles and have made multiple mistakes in my experience of being the RP and seeing DHs case as an NRP. But no, the RP cannot just insist on C&P so if your DH has made all payments on time he needs to speak to them and have that changed. Might need to get your MP involved.

I think the other dads’ behaviour is irrelevant. Agree someone is telling porkies here.

@Legitimatesalvage

No. They cannot.

Either your husband is lieing to you and he failed to make payments initially so that's why they moved to collect and pay, or he requested it himself.

It isnt her decision. CMS initial stance is direct pay. It's actually very difficult to get them to move to collect and pay and they move them back to direct pay after a while.

Your husband would have to have asked for it himself, or someone working at CMS asked him and he agreed. Which is madness.

He needs to call and have it moved to direct pay.

I agree. CMS will always suggest a family based arrangement first, what you are saying sounds bonkers to me.

So he’s paying £700 for his kids and an extra £140 to the CMS just because his ex likes collect and pay ? Really ? Pull the other one.

What and how she gets paid from the father of her other kids is NOTHING to do with your husband. As long as he pays her at least the legal minimum each month on time, he can have nothing to do with the CMS.

My partner and his ex had a private arrangement.

He was none day late ONCE due to job issues and she switched to collect and pay. Which incidentally would actually be half of what he pays. But he still pays the agreed amount.

He didn't get to choose, she did.

@debbs77 he should be able to get that changed back - that isn’t what should have happened.

@debbs77

She gets to choose, if payments have been missed. They dont do it for no reason. If direct payments are missed, the RP can call up and ask for a change to collect and pay.

However, in your case that should not have happened. A date is set for payment. The NRP has 5 working days after that to get thr payment made (to allow for bank errors etc). So with 1 day late, they wouldnt have even considered collect and pay.

Someone at CMS maybe made a mistake, or he is lieing about what happened. Tell him to call CMS and have it changed back. Email his MP if they don't and attach evidence of the 1 day late etc.

@debbs77

If its collect and pay, how is he still paying above the calculated amount? They collect the calculated amount from his bank account, plus 20% extra as a fee and then they pay the calculated amount (minus 4%) to his ex.

He cant be paying more.

Are you maybe misunderstanding what is being discussed her. You say they had a family based arrangement. So no involvement from CMS. They did it themselves. He was late with a payment so she called CMS and opened a case, and they made a calculation. They'll have sent him a letter with the calculated amount and a payment schedule and he needs to stick to that.

That isnt collect and pay. That's just calling CMS and opening a case. Which is the choice of the RP. She has every right to do that. All it means is that she has legal protection now if he stops paying and she can take action to collect the money. Right now, he's just paying her directly but has a letter from CMS telling him what he needs to pay and when.

My DH is on the phone to CMS now, he's spoken to one person so far who says that he is on C&P because RP has requested "no communication" with PP directly. He's waiting now to speak to a "case worker".

DH and his ex have a fairly decent working relationship for sake of the kids. Sometimes they bicker but she is never shy of calling, texting and emailing. So I'm feeling very confused now.

She and I get on very well, and she's never mentioned this to me.