Moving to the other side of the country...?

[Bitterofbrighton]

Hello!!

I need some wise words again please as am getting my knicks in the proverbial twist..

Not sure if anyone remembers my last post, but left XP about 4 months ago. DS is 14 months. XP didn't want to see him at all (typical spiteful nonsense) at first..until about 2 weeks ago when he made very convivial (sp?) overtures to see his son. First visit was all okay, but during a subsequent unannounced "just dropped in" last Sunday eve (yes, yes, I know...), I dared to suggest that a week on/week off access arrangment with a 14th month old might not be in anyone's best interests...at which point he went mad (in front of DS), huge tirade of verbal abuse, threw him out...upshot of which "he no longer wants to see his son anymore" (as I am such a bitch ..)

Anyway, long way around to the problem..basically I intend to move from Brighton to Glasgow within the next 6 months. Family are up there, I can get a job fairly easily and I can buy us a house rather than living in a 1 bed flat (which I think is being watched by XP)...loads & loads of benefits, but obviously this isn't the best thing in terms of access. Can this move by prevented by a contact order if it came to it..? I know that PR is funny about inter-country moves, but what about England to Scotland....?

Ta lots
BofB

I would just up and move as it looks like it is in your and your child's best interest to do it, maybe if your ex has PR he can take you to court to stop the move but could he be bothered to do that or even spend the money in doing it ?

I think you may need to find out about this, as I understood you may need court permission , if ex objects. I am not sure, however, so best check with solicitor - and good luck!

Does you XP have parental rights and responsibilities? ie, were you married and how old are your children? Is he named as the father on the birth certificate?

Message withdrawn

You would be taking the child out of jurisdiction and that would be seen as an abduction.

does it definately mean the country though, and not the UK? My solicitor said the UK? I am sure?

Need to speak to a solicitor.

England and Scotland are classed as different jurisdictions. Whilst there may be a lot of law which is UK wide there is sill a lot which is not, ie criminal, delict etc.

I would advise anybody who is in any doubt to seek legal advice. x

Just seen replies to this. Thanks all..

Looks like I need to talk to a solicitor asap. Bloody bloody annoying, especially as he is a control freak who seems to have no real interest in his child at all and will just play up to try and get me.

Just wondering tho (and trying to avoid expensive legal costs ) - would this particular PR legislation apply if/when a court order is made after the fact i.e. no court order exists (or is likely to exist) at the mo in the current place of residence. I am not therefore "removing from the jurisdiction of the court" as DS not under court control. Or does the PR legislation effectively just mean "you can't take him out to a country with a diff legal system"?

XP being the control freak, not the solicitor

From the "Families need Fathers" website:

"If a child for whom you have Parental Responsibility is taken to live abroad without your consent or in breach of a court order you may apply to have him/her returned under the Hague Convention, as enacted by the Child Abduction and Custody Act 1985

A return to UK jurisdiction will enable you to have the case heard in the UK courts. Note that the Hague Convention does not apply to cases within the UK (e.g. England to Scotland, Northern Ireland, Jersey etc) even though the legal systems are distinct and separate in each country."

Looks like abduction law cannot be applied within UK despite diff jurisdictions.

Thank God

Bitter

I have recently seperated from my childs father- She is also under 1 year old. I am resident in England, although I am from the north of Ireland, which despite being under UK law, has some differences in law etc. Like you, I became concerned that I may eventually seek to return there, as my entire family are there and can obviously provide a wider network of support. I am not currently in a position to do this as I have a good job, friends etc here, but I want to have the option, and besides, its very early days for me, and I'm not entirely sure how it will go for me in terms of support (financially or otherwise) from my exp.
In order to make myself fully aware of the facts, I went to see 2 solicitors- one when I was at home on holiday recently, and one here. I saw both of on the basis that for most, the first hour of advice is free of charge. I explained that my primary concern was that if I ever wished to return to NI, that I may be prevented from doing so by my exp, on the grounds that he had parental responsibility.( We were not married, but he is on the birth cert and she has his name). I was informed very clearly by both solicitors, that my exp would be most likely unsuccessful in preventing my return, unless:
A) The child was not resident with me,
B)Moving to NI would be of detriment to her.

As it stands, she is resident with me, and the court usually assumes that the child is, unless the father makes an application to have either sole/shared residency. (I think the word 'custody' has been replaced by this)
Also, moving to NI would not be considered in any way detrimental to her well-being because she would have the benefit of her extended family to enrich her life, and it would also be a support network for me, therefore her interests are being considered- (which is what the courts are apparently interested in)
It must also be taken into account (as I was told), that NI (or Glasgow in your case) is not considered to be the other end of the world, as it were, and so as long as I was not being in any way obstructive regarding the relationship with the child and her father- then it is unlikely that the courts would prevent me from leaving.

I think then Bitter, if you can rely on the advice I've been given, that you can breathe easy about your intentions to return home, should you decide to do so. If you want to completley put your mind at rest, I'd suggest you go and see a solicitor, and make use of the free hour of advice to find out what you need.

Hope that helps

x

pingu, thats a good post.