CMS to one parent and not the other

[AfterEightsBeforeEight]

Long time poster, NC for this...

I think it's over for DH and I, and one of the things we don't see eye to eye about are CM payments. I've used the online calculator and have shown him the amount, he wants to pay less.

Now. Situation as it stands (will use made up figures to illustrate) is that he owes me £600 for 2 children. He has a third child, who he doesn't use the CMS for who he pays £300 for.

He's saying the CMS calc is overstated because it doesn't take into account that there are 3 children he pays for, and I agree. So by then putting in 3 children it puts the total to, say £660 and then that would mean I'd get 2/3 £440, and she would get the remaining £220.

However, what he's saying is that he is going to leave the calculation as just my 2 children, so the total due is £600, but then he's allowed to deduct in full whatever he pays for another child in a private arrangement, ie the £300. So CMS will calculate my amount as £300.

I'm certain this can't be right. Can anyone explain what deduction CMS allow from a CMS calculation for the NRP paying a privately agreed amount of maintenance to another mother?

Hope that makes sense...

Afaik Cms will take the calculated amount and share it between the dc...
My exh had his taken via work and they divided it 3 ways (2 x dms)..
Or surely he could lie about having a private arrangement??

However, what he's saying is that he is going to leave the calculation as just my 2 children, so the total due is £600, but then he's allowed to deduct in full whatever he pays for another child in a private arrangement, ie the £300. So CMS will calculate my amount as £300.

hope it keeps fine for him. But in all seriousness, don’t even entertain that discussion. Just tell him you’ll be going through CMS and any issues with the amount he can pick up with them.

There is a govt website all about Cms. And separating 2 payments as you wondered...

But if the other mother doesn't want to use CMS because it will reduce the "£300" she gets to "£220" surely the CMS can't force that? Or are you saying they'll put her child in at his request as if it were on CMS, giving me an entitlement of £440, and then if he chooses to top her up to £300 he can, but it doesn't affect my £440?

Not your problem, if that’s what her and him want to do fine (if it’s even true). But not your circus or monkeys so l would just get on with submitting your claim

There is a govt website all about Cms. And separating 2 payments as you wondered...

@Snowymcsnowsony

Could you link me to the page that answers my specific question please, as I'm trawling through it all and can't find the answer.

But if the other mother doesn't want to use CMS because it will reduce the "£300" she gets to "£220" surely the CMS can't force that?

Think about the CMS amounts as the minimum he has to pay for each child. So if he wants to pay the absolute minimum he can get away with for all his children (like a scumbag - I would add that wording quite matter of factly into any discussion with him about it) he can tell CMS he’s got three and he’ll have to pay you a minimum of the £440 and her a minimum of the £220. Alternatively he can tell them he’s just got your two and he’ll have to pay you £600 and outside of that he can make any private arrangements for his money that he wants - but if that’s less to his ex than the CMS minimum she can go back to them to enforce it, so then he would end up paying £660 total anyway. And yes, it’s unfair on his ex that he could end up paying her less for his oldest than he has been, but that’s his lookout not yours - if he tries to convince you otherwise, sweetly offer him the option of topping up the amounts for both of you to solve the problem.

I can see it's pretty clear how the amount is calculated and split and subsequently paid to each DM if both are using CMS.

I can not see how CMS deduct the money privately negotiated and paid on a private family based agreement to one DM is then factored into the calculation of the other DM who is using CMS.

I get CMS and the other ex is still by private arrangement.

He can't leave the calculation as just 2 children and deduct money for the family based arrangement. He can keep that one at £300 but it won't prevent him having to pay you £440 if he includes that child. If he is going to refuse to acknowledge the first child to cmo then he'll have to pay you £600.

I can not see how CMS deduct the money privately negotiated and paid on a private family based agreement to one DM is then factored into the calculation of the other DM who is using CMS

It isn’t, otherwise they’d just all say well I can’t pay my most recent ex the maintenance she’s owed because I have a ‘private arrangement’ that precludes me from it. He’s not entitled to choose to make his own arrangement that stops him from paying the legal minimum maintenance for any of his children.

@combatbarbie so if you receive your payment through CMS, and the other DM your ex pays receives a non CMS private amount, how did the CMS adjust your amount to account for this?

What he pays to another woman has no relevance to what he will need to pay you legally under the CMS. Ignore him and go through the CMS to get your children's money. If he wants to overpay to the other woman out of the rest of his money that's fine, he can do what he wants. Legally he will need to pay you whatever it is that the calculator works it out to based on his wage (i.e the £600). He can protest to the CMS if he thinks that is unfair!

CMS shouldn't take into account a privately negotiated higher amount. If your STBXH paid £600 to the other parent would they then say they owe you nothing? He should owe you two third of what the CMS say for three children surely.

From what I gather, because we were both on private arrangements and had been on CSA prior, that if she doesn't call and claim then the calculations are just done on the claimed children. My payments went up significantly.

@AfterEightsBeforeEight

But if the other mother doesn't want to use CMS because it will reduce the "£300" she gets to "£220" surely the CMS can't force that? Or are you saying they'll put her child in at his request as if it were on CMS, giving me an entitlement of £440, and then if he chooses to top her up to £300 he can, but it doesn't affect my £440?

The cms will calculate as though the other mother is receiving the correct amount. He'd still owe you the correct amount. Entirely up to him if he wishes to pay the other more than the recommended amount.

So the worst I'm looking at using my example figures is the £440. Best case, the £600.

so he is overpaying.. He is paying £900 a month rather than the legal minimum?

what does he want to pay? what are you asking for?

No he's not over paying, we haven't agreed anything yet. When I use the calculator it comes up as, say "£600" for my two. He says I need to take into account what he privately negotiated with his other ex, which is say, £300. He says whatever calculation the CMS come up with, I need to deduct the £300 from and that's what I get. I don't agree that I should bear the shortfall if he voluntarily gives her more than the CMS would calculate. If you use the calculator as if you were him, and enter "I have 3 children to pay for" it comes up with, say £660. It then splits this as £440 me, £220 her. He says if the total for 3 children is £660, he gets to deduct the £300 in full as it's a long standing private arrangement, and the CMS are in agreement with this, so she'd get £300 still and I get the left over £360.

I can't find anywhere that shows as a paying parent, how much you can deduct from a CMS calculation for privately determined maintenance paid to a different mother.

He must think you button up the back. Just tell him you’ll deal with that directly through the CMS. Of course you can’t find anything about it because he’s not allowed to decide to just deduct amounts of his choosing from your maintenance. What a prick.

No you and your children don't need to take the financial hit he does

Just wait till the 50/50 demands start

He's talking rubbish. The amount is split 3 ways - 440 to you. What he chooses to pay his ex is nothing to do with it.

However, I would be suggesting to him that if he thinks the appropriate amount for one child per month is £300 then why does he think these 2 kids deserve any less? Does he love them less? Are they less important? Why is he not suggesting 600 to you?

@AfterEightsBeforeEight

No he's not over paying, we haven't agreed anything yet. When I use the calculator it comes up as, say "£600" for my two. He says I need to take into account what he privately negotiated with his other ex, which is say, £300. He says whatever calculation the CMS come up with, I need to deduct the £300 from and that's what I get. I don't agree that I should bear the shortfall if he voluntarily gives her more than the CMS would calculate. If you use the calculator as if you were him, and enter "I have 3 children to pay for" it comes up with, say £660. It then splits this as £440 me, £220 her. He says if the total for 3 children is £660, he gets to deduct the £300 in full as it's a long standing private arrangement, and the CMS are in agreement with this, so she'd get £300 still and I get the left over £360.

I can't find anywhere that shows as a paying parent, how much you can deduct from a CMS calculation for privately determined maintenance paid to a different mother.

You can't find it because as I said before he cannot deduct it.

He can have a private arrangement, but you still get the allocated amount that cms state and if he won't pay this, you insist that cms deduct at source!