DD not sleeping at her Dad's house

[godiva1999]

Split with Ex 3 years ago, relatively amicably. DS (15) and DD (11) visit EOW, ex lives about 10 miles away, with new partner and her daughter (9).

DD has never been a great sleeper, she finds it hard to drop off to sleep and as a result has been reluctant to go to sleepovers for years. She listens to 'sleep stories', I don't allow her to have any screens, she does a bit of reading or journaling, and we manage it OK. Although I send her up about 10, she doesn't usually settle until about 11, but she never seems tired until then. Sometimes she wakes up in the night and sneaks in with me - maybe once every few weeks, it's never really been an issue.

However, recently, she's started to get more and more anxious about sleeping at her Dad's. She often can't get to sleep, which is not helped by the fact he sends her to bed at 9pm, and goes to bed himself around 10.30pm so she's the last one awake in the house. He leaves her with her phone in her room, and in the last few months, if she can't sleep (usually the first night she's away) she starts calling me every half an hour or so, often in increasing states of distress. This weekend was the worst. She called me every half hour from 10.30pm through to 2am. It was just awful, she was sobbing her heart out and begging me not to hang up. We ended up leaving Facetime on until she dropped off to sleep. The next day she told her Dad she was fine and asleep at 11.30pm!

I obviously tell her to go and see her Dad when she's distressed but she refuses point blank and begs me not to tell him. I know this is because she doesn't want to trouble him because he's very lacking in compassion and will just tell her to get back to bed and basically get over herself. She also doesn't want to wake up his partner with whom she has quite a distant relationship (from what I can gather). She has also said she hates looking like a 'baby' in front of them, & particularly in front of her younger step-sister.

My ex is very difficult to communicate with, lacks any kind of empathy and has no patience for this situation (clues here as to why we split up..) He can't understand why there's a problem and says she should just watch tv or go on her phone if she can't sleep.

We've tried to have a conversation about it. He's made it clear that he thinks I indulge her by allowing her to sleep in with me occasionally
(I'm asleep when she comes in!), that's it's all my fault, and she needs to sort this out herself. I've suggested phoning him whenever she calls me in distress, so he can go and settle her and he's told me that there's no way he's getting phone calls in the middle of the night.

As far as he's concerned, the only option is to take her phone off her. I know that if he does this, thereby cutting off any communication with me, her anxiety will be through the roof and she will refuse to go there overnight at all. This tough love approach will be a disaster, and I won't feel comfortable knowing she could be awake all night crying with no one to turn to. Oh, he's also suggested going to the doctor to get her some sleeping pills. Helpful. He just sees all this as a massive inconvenience and won't go out of his way to do anything that might comfort her (lying with her whilst she drops off, for eg)

She doesn't want to not go there, she loves him and she loves being at his house, but not at night-time. She is also wrecked with guilt about causing this situation and spends the next day apologizing over and over for waking me up (whilst begging me not to tell her Dad, or older brother) She's incredibly eloquent and insightful about the situation and we talk about it endlessly. She just won't talk to him though.

The first night is always the worst. If she stays there more than two nights, she's wobbly on night two, but usually fine by night three. Unfortunately, she rarely stays more than 2 nights in a row. She's a bubbly, bright, confident and funny girl, but on the Fridays she's due to go over there, I can see the anxiety building, she gets knots in her tummy, and sometimes even diarrhea.

I just don't know what to do now. My maternal instinct is to just tell her she doesn't have to go there for a while, but that's not good for her, or him - it would be the beginning of the end in terms of their relationship and set them up for a life of emotional distance. This would be an easy way out but not a long term solution. However, he's impossible to communicate with, and every discussion ends up with an argument and him blaming me for this situation.

I'm at my wit's end now. Any thoughts or advice would be very welcome, thank you.

That definitely doesn’t sound healthy for your daughter to be going through. Would you ex consider letting you come and pick her up just before bed time and then you drop her back in the morning? I know it’s obviously a lot more leg work for you but even temporarily to see if it helps your daughter?

Does she have audio books on her phone? It may be something she can listen to rather than just laying there wide awake, which will also be nearer to what she does at home.

yes, @maybelle345 that would be her preferred option and she's requested this before. It's an hour's round trip, so not that handy, and I'm sure he wouldn't do a share of the driving .. but it's something to consider as a last resort.

@witchdancer, thanks for the suggestion - they certainly send me to sleep! She has access to all kinds of stories on her 'Calms' app on her phone but once the anxiety builds, nothing will really sooth her back to sleep. It's a vicious cycle.

My dd was and is like this, still at age 14. She gets in with me most nights and won't stay with her Dad anymore and I don't make her. It is what it is 🤷🏼‍♀️

She is almost of an age where she can choose not to stay overnight.
I know it is difficult currently due to covid, but if you can talk to her teacher, you might be able to arrange some counselling for her. She may talk endlessly to you, but she still might not be saying what is really troubling her.

I would stop her going.

I have difficulty getting to sleep and staying to sleep and always have it's utterly awful.

When she does go back it may be better if it's for a much longer stretch.

I have caved, I take 2 piriton nightly as it helps me relax. When I go on holiday I taking hypnotic tablets with me as a last resort.

It’s really difficult for kids to get over a issue like trouble sleeping if both households are approaching it from different stances.

This may not be a suggestion that you want to take up, but have you considered changing your stance to reflect more closely what goes on at dad’s?

Whether or not his approach is better or worse than yours, if he is intransigent about it, the pragmatic move is to reflect the aspects of his approach which you find tolerable.

So you might decide that having her phone in bed is unhelpful, but that an earlier bedtime is actually quite a good idea. If she is used to an earlier night at yours, she might find it less alarming being awake alone at dad’s.

You describe her as an articulate and perceptive girl; you should be able to make a plan together about how to solve the problem. She does need to get to the point where she can get to sleep herself independently and calmly.

I’m not saying that I think it’s good that she doesn’t feel able to tell dad how she feels, that she is worried about appearing babyish etc. These are all real issues which reflect an underlying fragility in their relationship. This is a problem which will keep coming back in different ways, as your daughter grows up it will manifest itself in different ways, and it sounds like, unfortunately, she is going to have to learn how to manage that relationship, as your ex isn’t making any accommodations.

With regard to improving sleep, regular bedtimes is probably the most helpful thing you can do, and if she takes an hour to get off, she needs to be going earlier than 10, tired or otherwise. It isn’t enough sleep for a child of 11.

My child found self hypnosis cd’s useful, too. Perhaps a useful transition from sleep stories? Perhaps having an ipod just with audio for taking to bed might be helpful.
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An encouraging word; my dd had trouble sleeping, and used strategies to overcome it (to a good extent). She found this very empowering, knowing that she can have a problematic behaviour pattern, and change it herself, for the better.

thank you so much for the replies, and interesting that a few people suggest just not sending her, it would be a simple solution and one that's not unreasonable under the circumstances.

@ISBN111 such good advice. I hadn't considered adopting more of his hardline stance at home to help with the transition. You're absolutely right about the fragility of their relationship, and the long term implications of this. Our parenting approach has always been poles apart - one of many many reasons our marriage broke down. I will look into self hypnosis online. She's a bright girl, and is determined to overcome this.

I also think speaking to a counsellor could help, and I'm reassured by the responses here that this is not something to be swept under the carpet, and that she deserves to be supported and listened to.

You know that if he can't be arsed to build or nurture a relationship with his daughter, you can't patch that back up for him? It's not within your power. He'll get the relationship he deserves.

absolutely, @eifhsg. I just feel so bad for her watching their deteriorating relationship from the side-lines.

This sounds so hard for you and your DD. If it helped to FaceTime you till she fell asleep that one time, can you just say she can do that every night she's there? Even if you're watching TV (or asleep!) at the same time but she knows she can talk to you if she needs to and at least see your face. If that's possible, it could stop the anxiety from building and she'd find it easier to introduce other coping mechanisms (her calming stories etc). The self hypnosis sounds a really good idea too. Or maybe some CBT type therapy (if they will do that for 11 yo) might help with strategies to overcome it.

Self hypnosis is an excellent suggestion.

Just stopping her going over is, in my opinion, a simplistic solution. Although her relationship with her dad is problematic, she loves him and loves going over there.

My view on how to deal with raising children across 2 culturally different houses is that I need to support and prepare my children to be able to deal with the differences.

I know my children get most of their emotional nourishment from me (and their friends!) and that there are levels on which their relationship with their dad will never be as deep and connected as mine is.

However, since as things have panned out, I have this depth of relationship with my children, I feel it is my job to help them to learn to deal with difficult emotional relationships. Walking away is an option, but I want to teach my kids that walking away from family relationships is a last resort.

I think pursuing help for her anxiety is crucial. I recommend talking to the GP as well as looking as specific youth mental health services which may be available locally. It is unlikely that your dd’s school doesn’t have access to a counsellor also, and it’s not a bad thing if school are aware that there are some issues.

You are clearly thinking hard about what is best for your dd. Good luck with finding a way which works for your family.

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I was like this as a child and indeed as a childless adult. What finally cured me was being absolutely exhaused as a result of having small babies.

I was however never anxious about it, and while I now understand it and can resolve it (I need a huge amount of exercise to put me to sleep, or just put up with being awake). Essentially you need to resolve the anxiety she has, I would start by getting her reading - a kindle is ideal as it's backlit. She can read all night if necessary, or a nightlight might help....You just have to get her to understand that it doesn't matter that shes awake.
Clearly screens need to be off, computers and mobiles.
She could be ill with a tummy bug for the next visit, to give you both some time to work on her issues, then try again.

I think the phone is not healthy. I think I am with him. Or say she can have it to 10.30 then when he goes to bed he has it. She won,t be going to sleep if she is msging you at 2.00 in the moring. Why are you even responding at 12.00 I would say to her It,s bed time now I am going to slepp good night. (if you need help talk to your Dad.). Even at home say no phone in room past 10.30-11.00. (It,s been noted by profesionalkds hpw distracting then can be and how the light effects
the sleep as well. )
Also at 11.00 If she want to get in with you, say no it,s my bed walk her back to her bed.

I can sympathise as I am going through something similar with my son who is 11, he stopped staying over at his dads a year ago can't sleep there, scared of being the last one awake, his anxiety
goes through the roof... I got the calls too it was so hard, his dad lives 50 miles away so on his weekends my son only sees him on Sundays. I was thinking of starting a thread myself as I keep him with me as I feel at 11 he can make his own mind up, but still worry his relationship is suffering with his dad and he should be staying over. I am sorry I don't have any advice but I guess giving your daughter the choice and the fact she does want to stay over is still a positive. Good luck x x

DD2 has trouble with anxiety at night and she also listens to meditations to help her- plus we looked up some relaxation techniques like tensing muscle groups and then relaxing them in turn. She also has a portable nightlight , and I’ve bought her one of those heavy blankets for Xmas. Like your DD she is very self aware about this problem and it helps her to have a plan. If it were me I would be inclined to just keep that Facebook link as an option so she can see you- maybe just knowing she could do this would help. Are there things about the room she sleeps in there that could be adjusted to help? My otherwise lovely DH also has a very much ‘she has to just get over it’ attitude to this problem and as he likes to sleep in a pitch black room with the door shut can’t really see why anyone else would struggle.

I have a dd who needs everything just-so before she can sleep (sensory processing issues)

Have you thought of a weighted blanket, and wireless headband speakers (headphones in a soft band, can also be an eye mask)?

Thanks for all your really helpful replies. @ISBN111 good point about not quitting on family relationships. Ex comes from a family full of feuds where so-and-so isn't talking to so-and-so .. the hot-headed knee jerk reaction to a difficult situation being to walk away, which is his default strategy and clearly one he wants to deploy here too. More than anything, I don't want this to affect her relationship with her dad, but it's 150% effort from me and 1% effort from him.

@june2007 I never allow her to have her phone at night when she's with me - this is another area where our parenting differs. I know it sounds bonkers to be answering the phone to her at midnight, but she knows the phone is by my bed, she knows it'll wake me and I can't leave her hanging if I think she's upset and not getting any comfort where she is.

Thanks for the words of support @singlemum43, it's good to know I'm not the only one with this situation. I hope you manage to find a resolution as your son gets older. I am hoping that this is a temporary phase.

@Cathpot thanks for the meditation tip & relaxation exercises. I will look at some of those - including weighted blankets.

She's supposed to be at his for 3 nights from this Saturday and is already dreading it, so I'm still unsure what to do for the best. My partner is here on Saturday, who I haven't seen for nearly a month (we are in LDR, and each other's support bubble) so I'm already worried about having to split my attentions/affections until the wee small hours. It's so exhausting!

Interested to know how things worked out. My DD age 9 is experiencing the same thing, anxious for nighttimes at fathers, tears for the days leading up to it. Unable to sleep in her bedroom there - even though she shares it with her brother. She is very anxious about not sleeping and being the last one awake.