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Original poster

Advice re Christmas Contact

42 replies

wirral · 08/10/2007 14:30

An emotive subject,I know. I also know that in comparison with others I have it easy this time of year;

The facts:
ExHusband works shifts, daughter's just turned 8years old, court order states that over Christmas ex has daughter from 6pm Christmas Day until 4pm Boxing day and then other dates and times by agreement.

Ex wants from the Friday she breaks up until 10am Christmas Eve.

5pm Christmas Day until 5pm Boxing Day

Sat 29th 10am until Sun 30th 6pm

Tues 1st Jan 4pm until Fri 4th Jan 6pm

On the face of it his requests seem reasonable, however if I set it out like this : D = Dad and M = Mum the 'routine' is:

D D M M D M M D D M M D D D M M M

Which I think is all over the place. I suggested that he forgoes the weekend in between Christmas and New Year and instead has her for the weekend after New Year therefore giving daughter longer at both houses. He does not agree.
Also I am irritated by him changing the times stated on the Court Order and also by his suggestion that he picks up daughter at 4pm on New Years Day - this smacks of using me as a baby sitter - he is either working New Years Eve or going out therefore needs to sleep during the day.

I suspect that noone will reply to this as it is pathetic and difficult to understand however I just wondered if anyone has any suggestions? Or do you think I should just agree.I worry that daughter will not want to go to Dad's and will be stressed with thinking up an excuse or inventing an illness

OP posts:

Original poster

wirral · 11/10/2007 15:38

Ha. Thanks Bozza. I am just so not wanting to restrict his contact I just want it to be more of a 'block' of time than just here and there. It is so difficult with the fact that he works shifts. We have to have a lot of contact to try to arrange things. As he can't stand me and thinks that I am totally unreasonable this makes compromise difficult.

Thanks for attempting to understand anyway

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 11/10/2007 15:42

My stepsons have two weeks' holiday over Christmas.

Our deal is that we get the first week ie from Friday after school until a week on Saturday except that on Christmas Day they go to their mother in the morning and stay until Boxing Day morning. They go to their mother for the whole of the second week (she is taking them away on holiday for New Year so we won't see them at all).

I think this is fair and reasonable. I hate chopping and changing.

Original poster

wirral · 11/10/2007 17:01

Thanks Anna. That's really something that I would want for our daughter but I do realise that ex is not being deliberatly awkward, he just works shifts so has difficulty getting time off over the Christmas period. If we could talk and actually discuss things perhaps he could explain his shift pattern to me. One of the problems is that he doesnot want me to know his shift rota therefore I am in the dark as to when he is working and when he is playing hence the feeling that I am just a babysitter when convenient for him and our daughter is just available for him to have when convenient.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 11/10/2007 17:41

wirral - it is actually very important that your ex-partner's work or social life not be the determining factor in your daughter's contact arrangements. Her well-being is the issue.

Original poster

wirral · 11/10/2007 17:48

I understand that Anna but I appear to be unable to explain that to him. He and his solicitor do not agree that I should have his shift rota as they say that it gives me too much control in his life. I am not sure why as he knows that I work 9 - 5 Mon to Fri. Initially when he left he would let me know on a 6 week basis the times that he would want to see our daughter. No one including MY solicitor appeared to understand the problems that this caused me with work etc. We ended up going to court but he agreed before we went into court that he would be able to have daughter on Mon, Tues and overnight most Fridays ( He also gets a full weekend in a 6 week period). The stumbling block now is holidays as I think he insists on 50% ( and who can blame him?) but wants to fit them around his shifts. This would probably be ok if things weren't so acrimonious between us.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 11/10/2007 18:14

I think your ex's solicitor is trying it on, because by withholding the shift rota your ex gets all the control . I would have thought that that would be pretty easy to challenge.

Tinkerbel5 · 11/10/2007 19:47

I think your ex is a tad paranoid, he needs to grow up and put his feelings aside for the sake of your daughter, I cant see why its a problem to have a copy of his shift pattern, my ex used to give me a copy of his so that I knew when to contact him and when not too as he couldnt have calls whilst working. I cant see why he is able to control you by exercising his right to have his daughter 50% of the time and happily have her living out of a holdall just so that he can let you know you cant control him as for his solicitor, he will say anything at £250 per hour.

Original poster

wirral · 11/10/2007 22:05

Thanks both.It is difficult. I am to an extent scared of authority. I also do not want to deny my ex access/ contact with his daughter. I do not have any interest in his shift rota other than when he can see our daughter. They say that divorce changes you. I need to harden up. I really get very upset when accused that I am trying to stop ex seeing daughter. When married I did fit my job in with his shift rota etc but not I need to find a life of my own.

Sorry - bit of a rant. I am just worried about being accused of attempting stopping access but I AM SO NOT,I just need to find a way of living with divorce, still working fulltime, enjoying daughter, and somehow having a bit of a life myself.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 12/10/2007 08:50

wirral - could you and your ex see a mediator about contact for your daughter?

Original poster

wirral · 12/10/2007 09:29

We have done and I did think that things had been sorted out. During mediation Ex asked if he could bring daughter back between 6.30pm and 7pm - I said no as I want her back at a set time and not when it suits him. He wanted to bring her back 6.30pm when working at 7pm and keep her until 7pm when not working. As he wont tell me his shifts this would mean that I just was supposed to wait in house for half an hour. Anyway after much discussion it was agreed that he would return her at 6.30pm - Now he has just gone ahead and returns her between 6.30pm and 7pm.

Holidays and Christmas were not dicussed during mediation as I was not aware that there was any problem with the Court Order. To be honest mediation was a total waste of time as ex just does as he wants anyway.

Because of his shifts it is difficult to establish a routine. For example we couldn't say every other Christmas Day etc as he may be working Christmas Day or not working for three on the row.

I am totally fed up with the arguing. I also feel that in a way there is too much contact between us at a time when it would be better for us both to keep our distance and let the dust settle.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 12/10/2007 09:41

Yes, it does seem as if the shifts are the sticking point and that is a very good argument for your ex to have to tell you what his shifts are if he wants you to work around them OR you saying that you make arrangements regardless of his shifts and he has to bear the consequences of childcare.

Original poster

wirral · 12/10/2007 12:00

No chance of making him bear the cost of childcare. He already goes on lads holidays and doesn't arrange for anyone to pick daughter up from school on his contact nights. The onus always seems to lie with me.

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 12/10/2007 12:08

What do you mean - when he has your daughter for the night he doesn't pick her up from school? Who does?

Original poster

wirral · 12/10/2007 12:22

When he went on holiday he didn't make alternative arrangements for his contact time with her. Normally he picks her up Mon, Tues and Friday from school. This leaves me with Wed and Thurs to cope with. I work full time. When he went away I had all five days to do. He could have asked his Mum or a Mum from school but he seems to just think that I can drop everything to suit him.

What do you think re Christmas contact? I realise I have a 'good deal' as I get the important dates but I do think it's too sporadic. He has emailed me today - for once not in a nasty way - to say that he doesn't agree that it will unsettle daughter to spend 2 days at home and then 2 days with him. I still think I'm right and to be honest have no way of proving that I am other than to go with my instinct. I am not cutting down his time as he could make it up the weekend following New Year

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 12/10/2007 12:26

Hmm, he's very naughty letting your daughter down like that. Have you tried putting it to him in those terms - pointing out that if he is unreliable she won't be able to depend on him as a daughter should and that will spoil their relationship? A bit of emotional blackmail (in small doses) works wonders with my partner's ex wife .

For Christmas (and holidays in general) I agree that it is far better to split the time up into chunks but if your partner's work really doesn't allow for that, I don't really know what you can do. Are you going to be working over the holidays? What will your daughter do on the days that she is with you?

Original poster

wirral · 12/10/2007 12:35

I am fortunate to be able to work 'termtime' therefore am able to be off work when she is on holiday.

I just can't make him see sense re the holiday etc. He just thinks that I am being totally unreasonable. When he went on holiday and I moaned about having to pick daughter up 5 days he suggested that I explain to daughter why I didn't WANT to pick her up - I did WANT to but couldn't as was in work.

I think I'll just stick to my decision regarding Christmas. I am not sure that he can't have daughter on the dates I've suggested but think that he wants to see daughter for more days in between Christmas and New Year.Whist I can see his logic I still think daughter would benefit from larger chunks of time with each of us

OP posts:

Anna8888 · 12/10/2007 12:37

Wirral - like I said, try not moaning at your partner, try sending him on a guilt trip . Be super reasonable and charming about it.

Easier said than done, but better negotiation tactics than moaning (which never works IMO).

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