fathers that try to control and destroy

[Amai]

I know that as a new comer it is'nt nice to start off so negatively however this is why i am here. I am hoping some of you read my bit in 'when a child has not met their father'.As i dont want to hijack someone elses topic i started a new one. I would like some more feed back on my situation if any one eg. Meanbean could please elaborate on this control thing that fathers do. It seems to me that is what he is trying to do. I can sence the difference genuine love and manipulative love.

well 27 years on from my birth and my dad still 'tries' to do it, not much help to you though

I have children off an extremely manipulative man, i put it down to his hatred of himself, his guilt, and the fact that he has not learnt to love himself yet so doesn't know how to show it. He doesn't believe in unconditional love, putting people first etc. he has been taught its a dog eat dog world and you look after no 1 or you get hurt.
On the other hand he could just be a twat

Hi Amai, I read your bit on the other thread and it sounds like you've gone through a harrowing experience.

There is so much publicity around about mothers who deny access to their children's fathers for no good reason, that I think often mothers who want the best for their children go too far the other way, and are made to feel guilty when they protect their children and sometimes themselves, from a very destructive, harmful man. I've lost count of the number of women I know who button their lips and tolerate the most outrageous insults, insolence and even abuse, for the sake of ensuring that their children maintain contact with their fathers. To the extent that their children start to treat them with contempt, because that's what they learn to do from their father. And there are fathers out there who hate the exes more than they love their children and would do anything to get one over on them, even if it hurts their child. Before people jump on me and say mothers can do too, I think we all hear plenty about those mothers in the media, but we get very little of the other side of the story and that's what we're discussing here.

I think you need to bear in mind that if it's a choice between a bad father or no father at all, then a bad father will probably cause more damage to you and your child.

I also think that people are very unrealistic to separate the interests of the parent with control and the child. If you have an enemy in your life who is making you stressed and unhappy, that is bad for your child. Happy mothers make happy children. Good fathers know that. In your situation, I would probably advise that you go to a family lawyer who would be able to give you some advice.
HTH.
I'm trying to cut down on Mumsnet, so if you want to CAT me to talk, please feel free - I'd be happy to talk to you, it sounds like you could do with lots of support.

Thank you for the input guys this is what I needed to hear. I already feel lighter.I have made an appointment with a family lawyer as it happens but may also need to talk to a councillor if that does not work. As he is in another country for now the law can't touch him. For the time being I just get on with things but soon I will have to face up to the problem. I am going to the country where I met him -where my family live- for christmas and he knows and is expecting to meet her. This will be especially hard for me as my bf here is her daddy as far as I am concerned.

Hi Amai, Sorry to hear of your situation. I don't have any useful suggestions, but does he know where your family live, and where you are going when you go over to visit them? I don't know too well how things work when the father is in a different country, but from what I do know, he won't have any legal rights over your dd. I agree with what Meanbean has said (cant believe you're trying to cut back on mumsnet!! tsk tsk! )

My exp use to play a lot of the mind games and put pressure and guilt trips on me, but now I have learnt that it is just him trying to get control over me. But he lives a few hours away so cannot do a lot, when he threatens to just turn up etc. He has also stopped with his attitude towards me, as he knows he cannot affect me because I don't fall into his old traps anymore (thanks to the support of mumsnet and particularly Meanbean).

Talking to your solicitor is a good idea, just so you know the facts. And as you say he's in another country so the law can't touch him. If he starts going on about it, then throw it back at his face and say since the law can't do anything, he has no rights, and theres nothing he can do. hope everything goes okay for you. xxx

Are men loosing their identity. My parents were not married and they worked everything out amicably. Maybe with the establishment of feminism men are just getting confused. As women have such an important role i.e pregnancy, giving birth and rearing the men historically have been jealous and have tried to oppress us in different ways. As we dont stand for this opression any more because of equal job opportunities at least in british culture, men find other ways to opress. What can they do better than us after all? What is the best way to get at a women, find her most vulnerabel points, - sex and her children. Men that beat their wives/girlfriends do it because they are insecure and dont know what the role of Husband/Father is.

In reality most stable marriages have mother in charge and the man knows and accepts this, (he may hide it well though). I think it may be the truth or am I just thinking too much, no I stick to that statement thinking about it. If Children are raised without a father figure as the father of my child was, they dont realise this. That is because looking in on family from the outside the man appears to be the head through his action of bread winner and protector of his dds' (BTW what exactly is a dd-daughter?) virtues. I am not forgetting respect and equality without it there are no happy marriages eg if the mother is in charge and oppresses the man. There has to be a balance really. Does this just contradict my statement?

The bio father of my baby is a very jealous man, violent and a thief. He wants to be rich yesterday. He also desperately wants to have a son this was very apparent to me. Still he is young and at 25 I think he may be growing out of some of these character flaws. Well that is my philosophy. I would be very interested in other views whether they be in agreement or complete disagreement. Can any of you relate to this?

Amai - my ex sounds exactly the same as the father of your baby. I agree that some men don't know how to deal with 'modern life' but its no excuse - they need to grow up. At 25 (mine's 23) there is a lot of time to grow and change your character but some things shouldn't need to be grown out of - they should never have been there in the first place. Every man these days knows it's wrong to be violent - if they do it then its not because they don't understand - its because they don't want to put the effort into doing the right thing.

My ex was raised by just his mum and then she remarried when he was 5, and ok that may have had something to do with it but its also the quality of the child-rearing. For example when ex-h was little his mum used to hit him with a metal dog lead - how do you expect your child to turn out when that's what you show them?

As to growing out of flaws - you're the best judge naturally, but as far as I'm concerned - my ex is a b*stard, will always be one, will always be violent, a liar and an idiot at heart and no amount of growing up will change that because that's just what he is.

And by the sounds of it, I will grow into a biter old crone!

Well looking around this site it seems there are alot of women out there with destructive ex's (tahnks Ff,Tammyb and W.kicks BTW). Who would have thought our lives would end up resembling a bad plot in Eastenders! I think it is important for physical and emotional bullies to be delt with and we should counteract some of the F4J arguments to stop us looking like money grabbing b..., evil people. I personally dont care if the father of my child never gives me a cent if it gets him off my back! But then I have a very supportive network and can survive many women out there can't.

My exp is such a pain, he text me today sayin hes going to come tomorrow although last i heard he wasnt sure. Really annoyed me, and then to top it off he says hes booked four days off work so he can spend it with dd. Do i get a say? Oh of course not thats just stupid! Sorry just a quick rant.

But in relation to one of your earlier questions, my exp had wanted children as he needed unconditional love from someone, and who else will always give it to you then your own children. He asked the girlfriend before me to have his children etc, and although dd wasn't planned, he had said the same to me (creeps me out, and always sends shivers down my spine!) He thinks that because he's dd's father he can turn up when he likes and have her at his house etc. But he just thinks of his own needs and doesn't seem to contemplate whether it is in dd's best interest which it isn't as she hardly ever sees him.

I definetly agree that there should be something to fight back against F4J, who just seemed like a bunch of attention-thrill seekers rather than trying to spend that time with their children (although fair enough that some of them had court orders that only allowed them so much contact). My exp has signed up for membership although he has hardly any regular contact and it was his choice to move away, but he still blames it on me

TB, I thought your ex didn't work. If he is now working, presumably he is now paying a reasonable amount by way of maintenance. If not, why not?

If he says he's coming to see your dd without consulting you, remember you can always say no.

hey freckle, he is now. and has sorted the maintenance out after my mum said something to him. i know i can say no, and will throw them out if they p*ss me off too much but think i should allow them to come as it has been 4 weeks since dd saw him last, and dont think its fair on her for him to keep messing about. he was suppose to come last weekend

Glad to hear he is now coughing up a reasonable amount to support his daughter.

Amai, welcome to Mumsnet.

My situation is that my ds does see his "dad" who is a complete wan**r and @sshole.

He messes me around with contact (we are recently divorced after living apart for 6 years) but now the boot is on the other foot...when I asked my ds if he wanted to see his dad on Saturday afternoon last week he said he would rather stay with me and would see his dad next Saturday (5 hours is all he has ever been able to spare). I texted him and said he would be with me that he had had a bad week at school and was a bit clingy. He was not a happy bunny as it had been his birthday the day before. Then this week, my ds did the same and said he wanted to stay with me again! Arghhh, I texted saying he was still having a hard time and that ds had mentioned seeing us on alternate Saturdays - I never heard back from him. In my mind, it serves him right - and it is almost as if my ds knows that his dad hasn't played right by him in the past iyswim. Oh and by the way, my ds is his 3rd child by different women (he married two of us, and never sees the other 2) and his girlfriend is expecting his 4th child next year.

He does try and get control by sending horrible texts - I usually refuse to reply to them now, and refuse to look at him or speak to him, even when we meet to hand over my ds on a Saturday.

It's hard to see men in general as anything but manipulative and controlling after being with the mother of all to**s, but one day - probably when i'm about 85, and forgotten what sex is, I will probably meet the right man!

I dont know what to do, when I look at my baby she resembles her father and I just think I have f*ed up my life for good,(I love her to pieces of course!) but I shall be bonded to him forever and I know his manipulative manner will really make me doubt myself as a mother. I really feel trapped. I cringe at the sound of the text alert on my phone incase it is him, sad hey! But that is life I will see what the solicitor says. Chocol8,wknicks and tammybear thanks for your stories I know now what to expect if I give him a chance. I wont give him that chance, I refuse ever to face him again. If he cant respect my rights (I said no to sex) then i won't acknowledge his. Not easy though when i look at my dd, his poison is working on me.

tbh amai, as he is in another country, i dont think he has that many rights, and as you're bringing her up yourself, if you're not comfortable with anything, just say no. i hope things go well for you xxx

I know what you mean when you say that you dread the sound of a text alert - I sometimes still do that now.

However, after speaking to a male colleague many years ago, he said it would piss my h off more if I didn't reply to his abusive texts. I can't tell you how much better I feel now I do this. Unless it is about my ds, I have made it clear that I will not reply to them.

I have said this before to others but when I chucked him out, initially for the first minute or so, I was surprised that he left and wondered how I was ever going to cope with a ds of 15 months. Then I realised that I had the remote control, there was chocolate in the fridge and I didn't have to rush home to cook his tea, after a days work. Ahhhh, bliss. I can't say it has been easy cos it hasn't but my ds and I are happier together without his destructive presence. Perhaps my ds is just beginning to realise this and that is why he doesn't want to see his dad more recently.

I felt like you did, but in hindsight, it is not good for you or dd if you let him make you doubt yourself as a mother...if you do that, he has a victory and you must never give him the satisfaction of this. Tammybear is right of course, he lives abroad and therefore doesn't have many rights.

I keep a diary of all texts and meetings and when he sees my ds - it may be a good idea to do the same, especially if you seek professional help from a solicitor in case he starts making demands in the future. Don't let him win the smallest victory Amai - rise above it - you are better than him and you have the most important job in the world as a mother. xx

Thanks for the messages, I do keep all his texts and horrible emails and I don't answer any of his texts anymore. I used to answer the 'nice' ones but then he tried to get me to do things his way. I will be strong I have been up until now I guess I am just dreading going to SA where I know I wont be safely 5 thousand miles away from him! He doesn't know where I live out there but it won't be hard to find out and the police there are very chauvanistic. Any way it will sort itself out I will rise to the challenge!

From what I remember, you're going to see your family arent you? Just explain to them, that if he turns up, you don't want him coming in, seeing you etc. I think all exp's are like this, as we have all the control over our children's lives so they try to take back some of that control by messing us around. my dad still does it with my mum, although my parents split up when i was 7 and we're all grown up.

Sorry to be responding so late, but i've been away at my mums. Would just like to recommend that anyone receiving text messages from an ex-p under any type of heading (bullying, sarcastic, threatening, down-right scary) CHANGE YOUR MOBILE NUMBER.

I used to dread the sound of the message alert to the point that it gave me shivers or made me feel physically sick. Changed my mobile no and got a land line that i can divert to my mobile whenever i am out and need to be contactable by ex-p (because he has ds and only then.)

Most of these exp's are basically cowards and this cuts off their convenient outlet to controlling you.