DD4 wants to live with dad.

[greysome]

Looking for some advice regarding my dd4. She is an only child and me and exH split up 18 months ago. When we were together he looked after her 2 days a week and was working much of the rest of the week. We did not have days off together and didn’t see much of each other evenings or mornings. I did the evening and morning stuff, and the weekend with her alone, and he had her 2 days during the week whilst I was working and he was off, if that makes sense.

Since we split up exH has daughter 2.5 days (3 nights) a week, every week. He has always been pushing for more contact but I feel it’s a reasonable split for her age and he is currently living in a caravan in his parents garden so not ideal arrangement. Potentially relevant, exH was emotionally abusive to me (although I still struggle really accepting that). DD4 has been becoming progressively upset about how much she misses daddy, and how much she wishes we were all together. This has been ongoing since we split and has intensified over the last few months. It has now reached the point where she is sobbing every evening, and on various occasions throughout the day, about how much she misses daddy and wants to be with him. She has made mention of worrying about daddy and daddy being all alone during these moment too. Therefore I have tried to reassure her of this and spoken to my ex (not easy) to ask him to reassure her he isn’t lonely. However nothing I say seems to have any impact. She tells me daily I do not love her as much as daddy does, she loves him more and she wants to be with daddy always and live with him.

I really don’t know how to respond to this. I want to validate her feelings, I want her to feel safe to talk to me and listened to, but I also don’t want to feed into this too much.

It’s happening every day. She could be having a great day or playing with friends and it still happens. She is basically inconsolable.

I would really like some advice on how to handle this? I’ve tried cuddling, reassuring, telling her she will see daddy again soon and she will always have time with daddy. I have also said it’s important for all children to have time with daddy and mummy too, and that I look forward to and enjoy my time with her as well. I try not to say I miss her or it upsets me as I really don’t want to be putting any responsibility for my feelings on to her.

I try not to make assumptions about my exH behaviour. However I did feel very responsible for his feelings during our relationship and I worry the same pattern is occurring. I am concerned about some of the things she is saying, e.g daddy says every time I see the moon to know he is missing me... which I think could be contributing. She has also said things are ‘secrets from mummy’ and about ‘going against daddy’ when she tells one of these ‘secrets’.

I guess I’m just really worried about losing her. Of course I’m upset on a personal level about what she says but I can handle that separately. It’s just so hard seeing her breaking her heart on a daily basis and not knowing what to do. Any advice would be much appreciated

I’d worried your ex is putting this shit in her head op. Have you had a proper talk to him about it?

I would be really concerned about the secrets. I taught my kids they don’t keep secrets from me or my ex. What secrets has she told you so far?

Sounds like he has got to her my ex does this too its heartbreaking watching them rip themselves in two

Tell her mummy misses her too mummy doesnt want to be alone either of course mummy loves you and it's ok to love daddy and miss him and it's ok to love and miss mummy too

Yes I'm very worried about the same. I don't feel like I can't have a proper conversation, because I think he will be pleased. I feel like he sees it as a competition for her love and to be the wanted parent and he is winning. I did talk to him about her worrying about him being alone and he said he didn't want her to be upset and would reassure her, but I've seen no change in her behaviour.

As for the secrets, it's generally things like playing computer games or very trivial, stuff I generally wouldn't do for her but that isn't damaging or any of my business. I've just been like 'oh that's fine, no need to keep secrets, sounds like you're having a fun time with daddy which is nice'. She is very close with my DM, and tends to tell her these 'secrets from mummy', but then gets upset and actually said 'oh no I've gone against daddy' which I find very concerning.

This is really hard for you, and you are right to be worried, because to me that reads as a safeguarding issue. Children should not be told to keep secrets from their parents, and that to me would be a red flag. Abusers tell their victims to keep secrets. I'm not saying that ex is an abuser, but that it will make it very hard for DD to recognise one, if being told to keep secrets from you is her normal.
I don't know what you can do about it, other than keep telling DD that you love her and want her to enjoy her times with Daddy, but that secrets are not a good idea, because it's upsetting for everyone.
I wonder if there is some sort of professional advice you could get on how to deal with it - maybe other posters might know what help is available and how you could access it?

He’s teaching her to keep secrets from you. It doesn’t matter if they’re trivial at the moment. This is telling her not to trust you and it’s dangerous behaviour. You have no idea what he or someone else may do in the future that could worry or upset her and she will feel like she can’t talk to you about it. You need to be firm and make it clear to your daughter and your ex that you and she don’t have any secrets from each other. You are allowing him to put a wedge between you and this will be contributing to her feeling like she needs to be with her father. Don’t ask her to keep any secrets from her father either.

Regarding the secrets, every time this has come up I've made it very clear there's no need to keep secrets and that there should be no secrets between mummy or to daddy. I've had several conversations separate to this about how keeping secrets isn't good and you can always tell mummy and daddy anything, and also to tell us if anyone asks you to keep secrets. Obviously it seems all this is being undermined by my ex.

I never tell her to keep anything secret and I try never to even imply she shouldn't tell daddy anything. Interestingly she says in the car several times of way to seeing daddy, " I will tell daddy I cried for him" and when I say "why?" She responds that she has to tell daddy everything and she can't keep secrets!

daddy is clearly filling her head with shit

I think she needs telling in an age appropriate way, and daddy needs reading the riot act or no contact

parental alienation is illegal. Daddy is pulling this shit

daddy is clearly filling her head with shit

I think she needs telling in an age appropriate way, and daddy needs reading the riot act or no contact

parental alienation is illegal. Daddy is pulling this shit

daddy is clearly filling her head with shit

I think she needs telling in an age appropriate way, and daddy needs reading the riot act or no contact

parental alienation is illegal. Daddy is pulling this shit

I think I’d be minded to speak to your solicitor about parental alienation.

I agree it sounds heavily like he is influencing her and trying to cause parental alienation.

It sounds like you handle it well, but I do think a chat with a solicitor would be a good idea.

“As for the secrets, it's generally things like playing computer games or very trivial, stuff I generally wouldn't do for her but that isn't damaging or any of my business.”

She’s four, everything going on in her life is your business. I agree he’s trying to alienate you. He’s being emotionally abusive to you both by using your daughter to hurt you. I would speak to a solicitor and consider speaking to a counsellor/therapist if you can. Emotional abuse gradually destroys your confidence to the stage where you constantly question yourself and what’s acceptable/unacceptable.

Read this list so you’re aware of what to look out for. Start keeping a diary in case you need it for future court proceedings. I’m no expert but you might be best asking in chat or aibu which has more people view them for guidance on what to do when the other parent is trying to alienate you.

janetmccullar.com/blog/parental-alienation-checklist/

Think everyone has been very quick to hurl abuse and personal resentment.

This is a young child who is very obviously struggling with the split of her parents.

Your ex obviously isnt in a position to have her full time in those living conditions and that should be sensitively explained to her but that her dad loves her and spending as much time as they do.

In the mean time I would honestly seek some professional help to discuss the emotional turmoil of it all .

What has the ex said about all of this when you explained ?

Is this court ordered?
Why is living in a caravan? Why is a four year old child spending a chunk of her week living in a caravan?

It just feels like everything I say to try and comfort her falls completely on deaf ears and she is very engrossed with him and their relationship. The entire time she is with me she's counting down till she's back at daddies.

I guess I swing between thinking he is doing something that's having this effect on her, and then thinking maybe this is a normal reaction? Maybe he really is just a great dad and I'm a shit mum and she's missing him. I definitely have more boundaries and routines with her, and I guess that's less fun when you're 4. Also the impacts of lockdown and massive restriction on the broadness of her world.

For full disclosure the other upheaval has been my DP moving in, which happened 3 months ago. Dd gets along well with him and there have never been any issues so to speak but obviously this is another bug change. Everyone knows there place with in it, and I've had several conversations with her about how daddy is her only daddy and never to be replaced. I spend time just me and her for a decent chunk of everyday and we have at least one day where I have her alone each week during my 4.5 days. I'm terrified that none the less this is what's damaging her and I'm unsure how to rectify it. To clarify this upset far precedes DP moving in or her even meeting DP, but could certainly be a contributing factor at the moment.

I've been considering speaking to my old therapist, who specialises in abusive relationships. She is the person I saw before and after leaving exH so I could ask her for some advice. She also works with children. However I'm a bit concerned she will be biased from what I've told her about the relationship and I'm aware that's all my perspective so maybe it would be best to find some one different for DD to speak to. I would need to tell my exH though and I think he would want to know all the details of the upset, which I am reluctant to do.

I suppose I never really achieve clarity on wether my exH was emotionally abusive, as I just couldn't figure out if it was him or if it was actually me. And despite having a thread on here at the time, and reading a lot, and having a therapist I still didn't have the conviction. However in the end I decided what ever the cause everyone was unhappy and leaving was the right decision. Now I feel like I'm back on the same carousel of 'is he abusive or is it me?' But this time with my DD.

It's not court ordered, it was agreed by the two of us informally. Initially I wanted him to have her only 2 days and night per week but he pushed very hard for the extra half day (normally he picks her up from school that day) and after a fortnight of him shouting down the phone or ignoring my requests for mediation I agreed to the extra to try and keep the peace. Probably stupid and selfish but I thought it was the less disruptive thing at the time. He regularly pushes for more time but I tell him I'm happy with the arrangement and we should go to mediation if he is not and then he gives it up quickly. Until the next time.

As for the caravan. Arrangement when we split was I would stay in the house and buy him out within 2 years. During this time I pay all of the mortgage and bills and maintenance of house. Therefore he would have his full salary to rent somewhere. He can afford to rent a 2 bedroom place. He also hasn't paid a penny in maintenance which I haven't pushed as he is so 'broke' and needs it to live (I know how much he earns and it's the same as me). I haven't asked again because I wanted him to have the money to rent somewhere for dd and not another excuse not too. Long story short he moved into caravan in parents garden as 'temporary' measure but is yet to move out. I've raised it several times and he gets angry and says he needs time to find somewhere to rent that allows a dog. Over the last few months I haven't mentioned as he is furloughed and lock down would I guess make moving impossible right now.

'DD4 has been becoming progressively upset about how much she misses daddy, and how much she wishes we were all together. This has been ongoing since we split and has intensified over the last few months.'
Full disclosure my Dp moved in 3 months ago.

Big drip feed there OP, from the sounds of it she is reacting to your DP moving in and feeling like her dad is now lonely on his own while you're in a new relationship. She's only 4!

That could absolutely be the case. The upset has been going on for much longer then the last few months though, but it definitely seems more intense. If that is the case, any advice on how I can reassure her in this situation? I have had several conversations about how important daddy is in her life and how that can never be replaced. I feel like we have a lot of time just us two and though we do things together as well, everyone knows there place with in. Dd appears to get on very well with DP and has never said or implied anything negative about the situation. They are also enjoying a shared hobby one afternoon a week (with me attending too) so their relationship appears to be developing well. Whatever the cause of her upset I am really keen to help her and improve things for her, it's heartbreaking to see her upset everyday and I just want her to be able to have a normal and enjoyable time both with her dad and with me.

I don't think it's complete tosh what I wrote. A new partner has moved into the house. That has changed the dynamic drastically.
The exH lives in a caravan at his own parents home, so beside the girls grandparents presumably. The DD4 knows that.
My point is the child being distraught might not ALL be to do with the exH feeding the girl a sob story. It could to do with trying to cope with someone else competing for Mummy's love.
My intention was to find a way to soothe the child and make her feel more secure in her own home. By upping the reassurance and with consistent attention-giving that will help.

The child won't be saying it outright if she is feeling pushed out. Because kids can't explain their emotions. Like I said she will be acting out how she feels or explaining it in a different format such as 'I want to go and live somewhere else because this doesn't feel comfortable/the same/like it used to for me here'.
OP you need to spend time just with her and you, away for your partner, do it each day consistently. As well as the shared time with you all three. I guarantee that will help settle her down and at that in that dept things will feel better for you.

I would start noting down with dates and context, everything she says.

Rather than her reacting to your DP moving in, I wonder if it's yr ex whose nose is out of joint and is manipulating your DD to get back at you?

Have you done the Freedom Programme @greysome? I think you'd find it very very helpful, for you and your daughter.