“Co parenting” with a narcissist

[Ohmymg]

Could anyone recommend any reading? Articles? Web sources? Anything?

I’m struggling with the knowledge that I’ll never be able to fully protect my son from the damage his dads narcissism will bring.
I worry I’m not counteracting it properly, is there even a way? Any advice much appreciated

I don't have much in the way of reading recommendations but I saw your post just as I came onto the lone parent topic myself to post something.

I wanted to say I share your concerns and you're not alone.

I like to think that by modelling to your son the example of a very different, non-narcissistic role-model you can go a long way to balancing it out.

Also remind yourself that it would have been worse for your son if you had stayed with him and you are doing the best you can.

Don't waste endless energy trying to placate your ex when he flies off into narcissistic rages. It's likely that whatever you offer, and whatever compromises you make, will never be enough for him.

Set up boundaries and stick to them: don't let him shift your energy from focusing on what is best for your son; when he accuses you of being unreasonable, you only need to think about your son's interests, and remember that what your ex is angry about will be to do with his own interests. Engage as little as possible, and don't get into lengthy dialogues. Crucially, don't get trapped into justifying yourself at length against his accusations (this is feeding the fire, and the more you write, the more he will respond).

You may well strongly question whether it's in your son's interests to have a relationship with him at all, and I know it's frustrating to have to work within the parameters of a legal system that prioritises contact with narcissistic/abusive non-resident parents. But you can do a great deal for your son despite this. Also ensure your son grows up seeing examples of healthy, non-narcissistic relationships between you and other adults he knows. This will hopefully help him contextualise his father behaviour more accurately as he grows up.

I really feel for you and if you have any tips for me then I would appreciate them myself! My son is still very young but I worry a lot.

beanstalkmums.com.au/co-parenting-with-a-narcissistic-ex/

Pp your link doesn't work.

Pps post is excellent though. My narc ex is showing exactly who he is. Don't engage with him. At all. xxx

Thank you for letting me know about my link @OhioOhioOhio and best of luck to you in your situation x

Trying again:
beanstalkmums.com.au/co-parenting-with-a-narcissistic-ex/

I don't know why it isn't posting the full thing. Third time lucky beanstalkmums.com.au/co-parenting-with-a-narcissistic-ex/

Otherwise google "crucial tips for co parenting with a narcissistic ex cherlyn chong" and the article should come up

Thank you both, I’m unable to sleep so will look through the link now.

I’ve come along way since the split (8 whole years!) and whilst I have much clearer boundaries and no longer rise to his bullshit it’s the low level manipulative ways he gets to ds.

He tantrums, has huffs, hangs up, storms off. He commands huge respect(cos he is his dad!!), winds him up, guilt trips him (I do everything for you, I ‘bend over backwards for you’ is a regular comment. It’s absolute classic narcissist behaviour, towards a 9 year old

Contact is fairly limited now tbh, especially given lockdown which helps but this behaviour manifests during phone calls almost daily. He is absolutely incapable of behaving like a normal, caring father. This is balanced by periods of love bombing, where maybe ex does feel some form of guilt?? “Oh ds you know I love you more than anything, let’s go to Florida, let’s buy x,y or z, lets make all theses amazing plans that I’m absolutely incapable of doing at the moment”.

Ds said to me earlier “I wish I didn’t even have a Dad”.
I’m more honest than I was, I tell ds that his father is difficult to talk to, that he can’t see things from any point of view other than his own. I don’t even know if this is the right thing to do.
I’m always fighting ds corner, always trying to compensate for ex, trying to big ds up and be normal and consistent and calm.

It’s heartbreaking, ds is an amazing kid. He’s made to feel like a piece of shit at times. I’m off to read and I’m sorry this turned into an essay at 3am. I think I needed it off my chest.

Thank you again

I found that as soon as I treated my ex’s tantrums the same way I would a toddler it made it easier, he’d never had anyone treat him like that, even I would alway back down and walk on eggshells around him -
It was definitely a defining moment.
I never defended exh’s actions. In simplistic terms I explained that dad, as dd realised, wasn’t like me. That he wasn’t very good at accepting blame so would put it on anyone other than himself as a way to protect himself and yes that wasn’t fair but he didn’t know any other way, We’d talk through examples, and asked dd why she thought it could be her fault, and then break it down into why it wasn’t her fault. By letting her see that dad needed to be understood it gave her some control back.
Might be frowned upon, but it worked for us. When he starts she can understand the process now and it diffuses it does her.

Or it did until the other day when at 17 she said she didn’t want to go there whilst the three week isolation was on as she has virtually SI and knowing him he won’t have. She came up with alternatives but he and his partner are now ignoring her. We know why - they have a spirited EYF years child and wanted her to go them a break.......

@Seeitsortit your approach sounds very wise and I think you have balanced it very well: explaining his behaviour to your daughter in a matter-of-fact way without badmouthing him. She must have been able to contextualise it so much better as a result.

I am worried about my son (who is only little at the moment, but when the time comes) feeling bad after guilt trips etc so will be bearing your post in mind. I suppose I worry about the inevitable slandering of me and my character too, and how that may affect the sense of security my son should be able to feel about his relationship with me. I had to leave when I was pregnant, so of course that will play well into ex's narrative that I broke up the family and took his son away from him.

@Ohmymg everything sounds so very difficult. I hope you have caught up on some sleep. I take my hat off to you! The fact that your son has said "I wish I didn't even have a dad" to you (even if just in the heat of a particular moment)suggests to me that he does understand his dad's behaviour is wrong. You have provided him with the tools to realise (at least on some level) that he's not to blame for his dad's actions, and this is something he will be able to build along as the understanding gets embedded in his mind. I think you're doing everything right.

At the moment my ex just sees my son as a mini him and love-bombs him, but I can already see signs he is going to be trying to make DS feel responsible for his father's emotions. At heart he is entirely focused on his own interests rather than those of his son and that comes out in his demands (most recently, demanding 30+ min video calls without others in the room!).

Sorry, not to make this thread about me! Just really thanking you both, as parents with older children, for some ideas for the future.

I recommend reading emotional blackmail by Susan forward.

Also have a read of the captain awkward blog

Thank you Seeitsortit your approach sounds similar to mine although ds is only 9. Ex told ds off yesterday- rightly so but his approach is horrendous. He just does not have the emotional intelligence to parent. This comes off the back of years of lack of responsibility, let downs, and tantrums on the exes part about his “rights as a father”.

Ex rang ds this morning and ds refused to speak to him. I’m not going to force it but I know the lack of contact will only increase the exes narrative of being a wronged father. He text me yesterday and said “I’m his dad and he’s the child, my behaviour doesn’t matter, he should respect me”. He’s utterly clueless and I know it won’t change, ever.

DrFoster I can relate to a lot of what you said, and it’s heartbreaking. The guilt tripping especially is hard to hear. My ex does very little above and beyond what you would expect from a parent but thinks the red carpet should be rolled out for him. When he says jump we ask how high- including his 9 year old.
Thank you too Soontobe I’ll have a look through those today

@Ohmymg does your ex always respect his father regardless? Might be worth pointing that out if not....I’d also remind him that as an adult that does not automatically mean he is correct on every issue.
He might have the right to say his behaviour doesn’t matter. At 10
Years old your son has the right to say I do not want to be with someone I do not believe has my best interests in mind - that’s not to say he can’t be told off by another adult, but in an appropriate way

Seeit I don’t think ex truly respects anyone tbh. That isn’t an exaggeration, he displays zero respect or empathy for anyone in his life. I’ve always thought he is able to act in a way he believes he should, but the mask slips very quickly. It’s his way, or the high way. Anyone who doesn’t bow down to him faces the most awful verbal abuse.
He has always convinced himself everyone is out to get him, me included. Convinced himself that it’s my fault his relationship with our ds is so fractured, despite letting him down hundreds of times in his life. He convinces himself of his own narrative, rewrites history, quite convincingly. He believes his own bullshit because I suppose that’s easier to do than admit you’re a total let down.

I’ve no doubt he has some form of personality disorder. Ds is realising how difficult it is to maintain a relationship with him and it’s very very sad to see. Even sadder that manipulation will no doubt follow about how it’s my fault or even ds fault.

I’ve learned to block it out, I found peace with the fact that he’s like this and it largely goes over my head but the fact that ds will, for some years, be left on the front line so to speak, is very hard to deal with

god poor you and poor ds. I think that your ds will realise when he gets older what his dad is and he will choose to cut contact. Certainly that's what I've seen from people whose fathers are narcs.

I think it's impossible to parent with a narc. As you say, I think your priority should be to protect your son from him - because as you say, your ex will just see him as an opportunity to love bomb and to get adoration from and about. It will all be about your ex, not your son and your ex won't be a reliable or loving father. The article linked to below is a good one I think.

Narcs aren't capable of loving or parenting really (I have a narc mother, and a narc ex - the latter's relationship with his children (not mine, thankfully) is dreadful and he has treated them dreadfully over the years. None of them talk to him now at all. I think the mother of his children has done really well to protect them from him and they see him for what he is. lack of engagement, or fuel, is really key I think.

your son will realise over the next few years, what his dad is, and I think all you can do is provide a stable, loving upbringing, and protect your son as much as you can. Good luck.

This thread has been very helpful to me too. Thanks

Thank you SybilWrites I tried to speak to ds today but atm he is saying rather bluntly that he doesn’t like his dad and he doesn’t want to see him. All rather emotionless, it doesn’t seem to be upsetting him. Ex also rang me quite breezily, think ds is being ignorant. His word. I despair

I would like to highlight that co-parenting is over used term.
examples:
try to google: parallel Parenting instead.
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/co-parenting-after-divorce/201309/parallel-parenting-after-divorce
or something like this
www.ourfamilywizard.co.uk/blog/3-things-you-may-not-know-about-parallel-parenting
good luck!