Taking clothes from a child

[octobersunshine]

My ex recently took me to court with respect of our 2 year old son. Most of what he asked for, he didn't get, and the court ruled largely in my favour.

Since this time, my ex partner has started to refuse to send our son back to me in any clothes he's paid for, meaning he mostly sends him back in just a vest, with no jumper, trousers, socks, shoes, coat, etc. He undresses him before they leave.

I feel really strongly that this is more than just petty and borders on emotional abuse. Our son as asthma and is particularly sensitive to being exposed to the cold, but more than that, I am concerned about what it teaches a child as they grow up and the emotional harm.

I haven't floated this yet with people I know, so I just wondered whether people thought I might be overreacting or if not, what can I do about it?

That is awful and yes I would think it is neglect. Clothes are an essential item so he can’t have him travel between your two homes in just a vest out of spite. What a hideous man.

It is a ridiculous and cruel thing to do but why doesn't your son return in the clothes he was wearing when he arrived at exe's house?

That's extremely strange behaviour. Presumably at 2 your son is able to express (verbally or non verbally) his dislike of being cold and 3/4 naked? It is undignified/ humiliating yes.
Isn't he collecting him from you dressed in clothes you've bought? What happens to those? The obvious work around is that he is put back in those clothes if clean, or you send him with a bag of basic supermarket clothes to come come in...

That's awful OP. You definitely aren't overreacting and it is indeed abuse. As well as being cold and physically uncomfortable, this must be sad and humiliating for your child. I'm not sure who you would report this to but it does need to be dealt with. And what a nasty twat your ex is

Hi all.

The court order states that ex collects DS at 7.30 on a weekend. He doesn't often sleep well through the night so it's not always ok to get him dressed after breakfast before his dad turns up, therefore his dad often takes him in his pjs.

To be honest, I feel like regardless of the practicalities and even if my ex was dressing him head to toe in woolly weather appropriate clothes to send him back, it's the fact that he strips him before he comes back to me, irrespective of what he puts him in after he's stripped. The principles behind that are what bothers me most

To be honest, I feel like regardless of the practicalities and even if my ex was dressing him head to toe in woolly weather appropriate clothes to send him back, it's the fact that he strips him before he comes back to me, irrespective of what he puts him in after he's stripped. The principles behind that are what bothers me most

I don't understand? What do you mean "irrespective of what he puts him in after he's stripped"? Why would he dress him after stripping him? Sorry if I'm being thick.

And why is your son picked up so early?!

My ex does something similar. He's asked our children to take their shoes off at the doorstep so he can take them home. He's also made my eldest take his football boots off after a game at the side of the pitch. All very humiliating.

If they do come home in clothes he's bought they are usually really cheap scruffy clothes to which my son has said his dad has got them changed into before they come home!!

All very odd behaviour!

Son goes with dad in his PJs. Doesn't he take a bag with his clothes as well? I know its not the same situation, but when we have a DGC to stay, they always bring changes of clothes/spares. Surely any clothes bought for your DS are HIS clothes, regardless of who pays for them.

I am sorry OP but this is definitely emotional abuse and humiliating for your DS. I am concerned about your DS when he is with his father. If he is capable of this strange behaviour what other rules does he impose on him when you are not there?. Can you take him to court to make new arrangements?

Honestly I would dress him before he goes to prevent this from happening. Even if he gets breakfast on his clothes.

It’s grim and ridiculous behaviour from him. But if your son is always going in his pyjamas, won’t the clothes at his place/yours get out of whack?

Honestly, though, I wouldn’t lower yourself to his level. He’s trying to make a point and get a reaction, don’t give him one. Just provide a bag when he picks him up ‘for DS to wear home tomorrow.’

Your update weakens your argument significantly octobersunshine because it turns worry about your DS being cold and undignified returning home in just a vest and nappy into a tit for tat battle between you and your ex over the principles of ... (something - I'm now not even sure what if you'd be just as concerned if he returned him fully dressed wearing weather appropriate clothing).

Is it right that the principle you're concerned about is that your ex shouldn't change your DS's clothes, not that he shouldn't return him half naked?

You're sending your child out in pyjamas - how are the pyjamas returned to you? Obviously your ex is changing him out of the pyjamas and into day clothes, then out of the day clothes but not back into the pyjamas. Can you tell him to put the pyjamas back on? Does he return your DS the same evening or the next day?

What your ex is doing is weird and wrong, but so is being more worried about a dubious principle than whether he is cold and humiliated.

Pack a small bag of warm clothes ready for your son to take with him to his father's.
You and your ex need to stop using your son to get one up on each other.

This doesn't reflect well on either of you. Clearly, it is not acceptable for your ex to undress the child before returning him. But you also seem to be digging your heels in, and putting a 'principle' ahead of your son's wellbeing. I also wonder, therefore, whether you've perhaps not been returning any of the clothes that your ex bought - if you always send your son in pyjamas, then you will pretty quickly leave him with few clothes at his dad's place. That can get very trying for the parent who is always reduced to buying new clothes, because somewhow nothing ever comes back from the other parent's house.

The solutions are very simple. You have choices:

1. Get your son up 5 minutes earlier, and get him dressed before he leaves, so that he always has clothes to return in.

Or

1. Make sure you always return the clothes that your ex bought, and don't hang on to them. Be clear that you'll do this, and that it isn't acceptable for your son to be undressed to travel back to you.

Or (ideally)

1. You both chill a little, and recognise that the clothes actually belong to the child. If you're both being reasonable and not making a point of who bought what, then this stuff usually evens out. Let him take a favoured item of clothing with him between houses, if he wants to. Respect him, and respect his stuff. It's not hard. But you both need to be adults about that - no hanging onto the 'good' clothes, and sending him in the older stuff. No keeping score over who bought what. Definitely no putting your son in the middle of your petty squabbles.

Blueskies, it's not about tit for tat. My point is that even if it was a warm day for instance and returning him in a vest wouldn't make him cold, what kind of vicious message does it send to a young child that they have to remove their clothes before going back to their mother. That's what I meant about principles.

If u send him in outfit even if the outfit is a pair of pjs can his dad not send him back in them? What happens to the outfit you send him in?

I've previously provided an appropriate wardrobe (in early Jan) for both DC, and added extra clothes to their suitcases for recent 5 day half term sharing.

None of these extra clothes were returned. I can't be bothered to get pissed off about it: it tells you more about my STBXH than anything. I log it, I move on.

I'm watching various clothes bundles for their size on eBay. Anything special just doesn't ever go with them. Shoes / trainers included.

It's pathetic isn't it? Just don't rise to it - yet again it's a control tactic to start an argument.

octobersunshine it's absolutely weird to be told to take off his clothes to return home but it would be far less weird to change clothes.

What would be least vicious, odd and unsettling would be to get dressed before leaving the house and return home in the same clothes.

I think your focussing on a principle when the solution is practical. Dress your kid before he's picked up or send clothes with him if that's really too difficult.

It doesn't change the principle that your ex is a bell end but it does change the impact this has on your child.

Just out of interest does your ex have a collection of your child's pyjamas (presumably some now outgrown) which he never returns, and you have a collection of clothes your ex used to return your DS wearing (presumably also partly outgrown which you have refused to return on principle), before this ridiculous situation developed?

Send a bag of clothes for your DS. Sorted.

But he doesn't go to his Dad's in just a vest so where are his pajamas?

If you know he will pick him up at 7.30 you need to get him up and ready, although nothing wrong with travelling in pajamas if they're warm enough. Why can't he travel back in them?

Can you not pack him trousers and tip for the return journey? Yes you shouldn't have to, but you can't say "DH is abusing our child and I'm horrified but I won't try and stop it"

What?! No wonder he's your ex. This is deeply sad that children are not allowed to have their own clothes and shoes. That they belong to their twisted dads. I would pack a set of coming home clothes, and tell him that your son needs to be dressed in those clothes when you pick him up and under no circumstances is he to strip him again, he's a child not a doll.

Just tell your ex that your DS is to come home in what he was sent in, it's really not difficult. We have managed this for years with 9yo DSS - all contact resolves around school pick up and drop off, but during school holidays if he goes back to his mum's in clothes that are from our house, he simply wears them the next time he comes here; or vice versa.

There is no excuse for your ex sending him home half naked, but at the same time as long as you are sending your son off wearing something appropriate then there's no reason your ex can't make sure he's wearing that when he comes back.

Can't his dad pop his pyjamas back on to return him back to you? Or you could send him wearing clothes which are put on to return him?