DC and their dad issues

[Hopereigns]

DC is struggling to get their father to understand how they feel. Father has accused the messages as being sent by me. I didn’t even know DC had sent messages as they weren’t with me at the time!

Father has said that child is being rude and he won’t have them speaking to him “like your mother does”. For context I haven’t spoken to him for three years since he screamed at me to “shut the fuck up”.

DC has told him they are upset, angry, because they haven’t seen him for 13 weeks. They did tell him to grow up! and told him it wasn’t good enough and he should see them more. (DC has now told me all this).
Nothing I can do , you can see that I am blamed for everything.

Poor DC tells him exactly how sad and upset they are and he still won’t listen. I tried for several years to tell him how DC feels, how DC need regular contact. Professionals told him. School told him.

He refuses mediation. There is literally that can be done is there, if he can’t take on board these are DC’s actual feelings!

The sad thing is he bonded with OW because he was “so caring and understanding of her feelings” :( where is that same understanding for DC?

Or is it just his own guilt making him react this way? Who knows!

No words of wisdom I'm afraid, just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel and my DD knows exactly how DC feel.
My DD is now 17 years old, and he still won't listen to her and still thinks I am influencing her (I wish sometimes!!).
It is sooooooo frustrating.

Thanks heartknot. I want to email him and say please listen to your DC, they are telling you how THEY feel, but he accuses them of it being me, because it used to be me asking him to see DC. There is no point at all though in me contacting him, because it won't get DC anywhere. Now they are old enough to communicate their own feelings, and still he ignores it and says it is from me.

Why can't her father understand that his DC is angry and upset at not seeing him since August? That is bad enough, but to not even have time to message or to ring them. He used to have regular contact, but stopped for several months a couple of years ago and has refused to make it regular since.

Last time DC went there, the stepmother took DC off on their own and told them that all the lack of contact was because of me, because I am selfish and won't put DC first, that I stop him seeing them, make it difficult etc. I have several years of emails simply begging him to see DC, to ring them once a week, to have them during school holidays. It is the complete opposite of what DC have been told.

I think he feels he is getting at me by not having regular contact and defying me, but the only one he is getting at are DC.

So many people have said that I should stop contact because it is only damaging her, but I just can't do that. I think she misses seeing her half sibling so much that I just can't.
He is totally disregarding her feelings, when he should be apologising to her and trying to work something out.

Did your ex stop regular contact around the time when the half sibling was born?
It must be tough for DC getting mixed messages from 3 adults.
All you can do is continue to reassure DC that if Dad gets cross, it's really aimed at you not them.

I really believe, with all my heart, that you need to invest in some sort of counselling for DD with the ultimate aim of helping her to accept that the relationship is dead. It's not her fault. She needs to understand that. Good therapy will help her see that.

In both the short term and the long term it will benefit her to know and to accept the truth about her father, and I think the kindest thing you can do is to help her to draw a line under the relationship with him and help her to move on, to accept that there is no point setting herself up for hurt time and time again.

Of course he should this and he should that.

But he doesn't, and he never has, and the more she is exposed to his toxicity the deeper she will be hurt and the deeper an imprint the relationship model will make (the model being - begging an angry, unavailable, narcissistic man for a crumb of attention).

Hopereigns, you are clearly very engaged in the drama he has chosen to create here.

Indeed it is completely true that he is doing this to get at you, to show you who is the boss. But by engaging, and by not turning away and say 'Enough is enough' you are also participating in the 'DD as pawn' aspect of the dynamic you and exH are involved in.

Turning away, washing your hands of him as a father, and disengaging from the conflict between you and him does not mean you are saying, 'I give up, you have won, I have lost'. It means focusing completely on your DD and trying to salvage her self esteem. Don't let him rob her of that.

I really, really urge you to talk to someone yourself about why you keep on butting your head against a brick wall here, why you keep on doing the same thing and repeating the same pattern yet hoping for a different outcome.

Then to get DD some help in accepting that the relationship with her father is not going to happen, and moving forward, grieving, feeling anger, feeling abandoned, feeling unworthy - a good therapist will be able to help DD come through all the negatives and emerge with a solid understanding of her father's extreme immaturity and lack of decency, and a sense of her own empowerment.

I am not engaged in it, which is why I cannot contact him over it, because I realise that it won't get me anywhere. I know that there won't be a different outcome and have told DD that this is his decision and his life and that nobody can make him do anything. I had a little rant on here about "why can't he" because I thought I could. I said in my OP that there is literally nothing that can be done to change the situation. I am living with it though and a having to deal with a child who is living it.

I do not engage with him on any level. He texts "I will pick DD up at X and return at X". I reply OK. That is literally the extent of the communication. I have not emailed him for years, except when I absolutely had to a few months ago, to advise him of a change in circumstances and even then he didn't reply.

I haven't gone to the CSA because I can't be bothered if he doesn't want to pay the legal minimum then so be it, I cannot be bothered to chase after him. I am beyond giving a shit. He has to live with the knowledge that he won't pay even the legal minimum to support his child.

I don't think about him unless DD talks about him. Sometimes I have asked her to stop talking about him because I just can't keep on listening to it, but that is not fair on her is it?

I have already lined up counselling for DD, but it can't start until the New Year. She really needs somebody to talk to about this.

I so desperately want to say NO MORE, but DD herself would never forgive me. She has told me that she can't bear not seeing her half sibling. I said to her I would tell him that it is not at all, but she said that if she only sees him a few times a year then so be it, even that is better than not seeing her sister at all.

I don't accept that I am engaging with him when I have literally no contact with him. He doesn't exist for me most of the time, until I absolutely have to deal with him. I gave up asking him to see her almost 3 years ago now and have never asked since and am not going to ask now. If he wanted to see her he would, it's as simple as that. I no longer bang my head against the wall because I stopped asking him, its as simple as that.

When DD came home last time and told me all the shit that her SM had told her abut all the lack of contact being my fault, I had a little cry out of DD's sight and told DD that they are responsible for their own actions.

All I do is repeatedly tell DD that nothing can be done. I told her that her father alone is responsible for his actions and his inability to pick up a phone ever because he is busy.

DD said a couple of nights ago - I don't go there to see Dad, it's clear that he doesn't love me, but I have to see my sibling.

What on earth am I supposed to do? He is breaking her heart as it is. If I stop her going there at all, then I will finish her off completely. I can't do that to her

donkieys that is the thing. i want to defend myself to the things that they say about me but I also don't want to drag DD into it. I try and laugh and say how silly they are. I have defended myself on a couple of points that I absolutely had to.

But no, I do not want her involved in this which is why I never talk negatively about him to her, other than to confirm what she says if and when she says it....... They actively involve her by saying things about me and accusing me of sending the messages that she is sending. She then feels that they aren't listening to her, they just keep banging on about how it is me sending them, me telling her what to say.

It's so hard for her. I gave up, I accepted it. She still hasn't and is still going through it because she was too young to deal with it when it all happened. She has a processing delay anyway, and that is quite obvious now.

I think you are engaged on an emotional level though. It's not simply a matter of contact or no contact.

Here is how you are engaging, by which I mean allowing this man to remain under your skin:

There are things you can't bear hearing.

I haven't gone to the CSA because I can't be bothered if he doesn't want to pay the legal minimum then so be it, I cannot be bothered to chase after him. I am beyond giving a shit. He has to live with the knowledge that he won't pay even the legal minimum to support his child.
This is engagement on an emotional level. You feel that you are taking the high road and hoping he will suffer in some way from the pricking of conscience.
Please go to the CSA and chase him down. Nobody wins when this man gets away with shorting his daughter financially, and retaining a sense of moral superiority is keeping you engaged emotionally.

You mention that you have years worth of emails to him from you. Delete them.
Slough them off like shedding skin. They are a deadweight, a reminder of a battle you can never win.

You ask all these perfectly appropriate questions - why? why? why? - to which there will never be an answer. You need to accept this, even though it is doing your head in. Draw a line under it all.

Nobody is going to win here. Reason and rationality and strength and human decency (you represent these elements in your DD's life) are not going to win. Unreason and irrationality and weakness only have to fold their arms and shake their heads, and no progress can be made, and that is what is happening here. It is maddening.

You are very upset (and have every right to be) that the OW has been telling DD things about you that are outright lies, and that exH is also telling her lies. Believe me, I would be spitting nails if I were in your shoes.

But ultimately, what good is it doing anyone to keep on trying, or to keep on taking the high road and allowing DD to keep on trying?

For your DD's sake, please, please, please get her a therapist who can guide her through the process of letting her father go. You will need a specialist with expertise in children with a processing delay. Art therapy or play therapy can be very useful instead of just verbal interaction.

This may sound completely trite and silly, but could you get her a kitten or puppy to bond with so that she doesn't focus so much emotional energy on her little sibling? Is there an activity she might like that you could afford like pony riding, where she could develop a bond with a pony as an alternative?

I don’t actually have years of emails, I meant I emailed him asking him to see her for years but gave up. I have to delete stuff for space reasons plus had a new computer so all the old stuff went a couple years ago.

I just can’t be bothered with the CSA. It’s not a case of being superior, I’ve just given up caring and knowing my luck it will all go wrong somehow anyway. it’s his choice to not pay enough.

I shouldn’t have said anything because it’s not come across right. All I did was voice a few thoughts because I hurt when my child hurts. I literally don’t give him a thought until DD brings him up. I don’t know what more I can say.

I hurt for DD that’s all. I have long accepted the situation believe me, I KNOW it will never change and have told DD that it’s his life and his decisions. I just can’t stop contact. She will make her own decision on that if they keep slagging me off and pushing her to one side.

She has a cat she loves and a special toy. The counsellor works with sand trays. She comes highly recommended.

I really think you need to give serious consideration to grasping the nettle, cutting contact and going after exH for the money DD should have. If you can't bring yourself to approach CSA, please talk to a counselor about why you won't or can't do this.

You are waiting for her to choose you over her father, essentially.

If she hurts and you don't want her to hurt, then you need to act, not wait.

It’s not a question of choosing me as I’m here. She has sadly come to a realisation that he can’t love her because if he did he would want to contact her. He’s told her he is busy working. She doesn’t believe that he can’t find five minutes once a week to call her. She’s tried to tell him when she’s free. When she told him to ask me when she’s free he told her that he didn’t my permission to call her. He takes everything the wrong way. All DD wanted was for me to tell him her timetable basically so he would know when she was home. (I’ve done that before though and it made no difference).

I asked him to pay minimum CSA , he refused. So be it. The thing is he changes jobs so often and could be out of work for all I know. It just seems too uncertain to pursue it and have it bite me on the arse somehow. At least he’s paying something.
I have my reasons. If it can go wrong it will go wrong. That’s what usually happens for me! I just don’t want the stress , aggro and aggression at the moment.

But if DD comes to the conclusion under her own steam, so to speak, that she should give up on a relationship with her dad then she is choosing you and dropping him.

I want to email him and say please listen to your DC, they are telling you how THEY feel, but he accuses them of it being me, because it used to be me asking him to see DC. There is no point at all though in me contacting him, because it won't get DC anywhere. Now they are old enough to communicate their own feelings, and still he ignores it and says it is from me.

This says to me that the efforts to communicate with him are still ongoing. You have backed off but DD is still trying.

It all needs to come to a screeching halt.
DD will need therapy to deal with the reality.

Please, please, please arrange this for her.

It's a big decision to make on her behalf, but think of it as a situation involving a school bully who slyly spits on her work or pulls her hair in class or kicks her ankles under the desk.

Would you go along with DD's plan to stop the bully by trying to explain how the nastiness makes her feel? Or would you tell the teacher what is going on so they can put DD in another class or separate them in the classroom? (And hopefully also deal with the bully but that would be out of your hands).