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Original poster

My Ex-partner denying my daughter holiday abroad

20 replies

Kady123 · 01/09/2018 21:02

Hi, my first go on one of these, looking for insight!
I split from my controlling ex (together 8 years from 15yo, never married) two years ago, and our 5 yo daughter lives with me. At that time he refused contact for 10 months, due to his bitterness and even in one message said 'she is only your daughter now'
He now has her almost every weekend, as I am very lenient, and I have always encouraged the contact. He has since moved in with someone and is now engaged.
The problem is I've told him I'm taking our daughter abroad for the first time this year. He said no (despite me informing him was not a question) - before a few days later agreeing after I reasoned with him face-to-face. A week or two later he has now told me "she is NOT going", and I will be 'receiving letters to that effect'. That if I want to go the legal way through the courts I'd better "get onto them sharpish" as there's a long wait.
My question is, do I definitely need his written consent to take her away for a 5 night break abroad?

OP posts:

SiempreDot · 01/09/2018 21:44

My solicitor told me regardless of whether there's a court order in place, the resident parent can take the child away for three weeks without needing permission. He can, however, apply for a Prohibited Steps Order to try and block it, but if it's just a family holiday, not likely at all that would be approved.

Whoknows11 · 01/09/2018 21:53

The resident parent can take the child out of the country for up to 28 days without the permission from the other parent!

GreenTulips · 01/09/2018 21:56

Agree - it's not up to him, you are allowed to take her without his permission.

Ignore

rainingcatsanddog · 01/09/2018 21:59

Would he normally have her on any of those days?

Lookatyourwatchnow · 01/09/2018 22:01

You need a specific issue order which will underpin this and all future holidays.

Ridiculous, but I had to get one and it takes the control away. Straightforward to get in this case too.

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad · 02/09/2018 08:52

Here's the guidance:

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Summary:

Everybody with parental responsibility must give consent before a child can be taken out of the country, no matter how long that is for

The exception is if you have a Child Arrangements Order in place, when the RP can take the child abroad for up to 28 days without consent

Taking a child abroad other than in those circumstances can be treated as child abduction. You can actually be arrested and prosecuted for abduction for taking your own child on holiday.

It sounds as though you don't have a court order in place. Your best bet is therefore to have his consent. If he withholds it, you can apply to the Family Court for a Specific Issues Order, saying that you can take the child on holiday. The court will make that decision based on the best interests of the child. They are highly likely to grant it, since the benefits of a holiday and exposure to other cultures are material - that's the basis on which to make your argument. You need to set out why it is a good thing for your daughter to have this opportunity.

Court can take time, and costs money. So your best bet by far, if you can, is to talk him round. You may wish to point out that at some point, he may well want to take her abroad himself - and he will need your consent. It is not in the best interests of the child to deny them the chance to holiday abroad, so talk about what your child will get out of this.

Try to understand his concerns. The only really legitimate reason for a parent to withhold permission, in my view, is if there's a risk of the child and parent remaining abroad, because this puts them beyond the jurisdiction of the UK courts. Anything else tends to be pettiness on the partner the refusing parent. If you can appeal to his better side, and persuade him that this is a good thing for your daughter, then hopefully he will come round. Otherwise, court is your only solution. Please dont take her without consent - the people on here telling you to do so, or that you don't need his consent, are giving you advice that could actually get you arrested.

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:24

He would have missed one weekend, which I apologised for and said he'd be welcome to have her the following one, by means of a compromise... Didn't seem to help!

OP posts:

fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2018 09:28

I would get a court order showing you’re allowed to take your dd on holiday, otherwise you’ll have this every time you want to go on holiday.

You can apply for the order yourself which would be cheaper but I’d also get advice from a solicitor.

Kidssendingmenuts · 02/09/2018 09:30

I'd ignore and just go. Take the birth certificate to prove your mum, and you probably won't even get questioned at customs anyway.
The only way he can really stop you going abroad is by going to court himself and getting a court order so it would flag up when you go. Bollocks to him.

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:31

Thanks so much for all your replies, the over all feeling has been the same as I've found so far, some arguing my side and some his, but overwhelmingly I agree that I think as I haven't got legal custody I need his permission
I reasoned with him in person, stating I understood his concerns, that I would also find it difficult, that she'd contact him daily--which is when he agreed to it, but since then when he changed his mind I fear I won't have any luck doing so again- he's very stubborn.
I managed to book a free 30 minute consultation with a solicitor this week, to know for sure. Don't want to have to spend out hundreds but thinking long-term, I need to know he won't always hold an unreasonable amount of control over her, and if that means gaining more of a legal standing I'll have to do so!
Thanks guys, I'll let you know what the solicitor says!

OP posts:

Quartz2208 · 02/09/2018 09:33

He gets every weekend - yes you are being to lenient.

Get a child arrangement order if you can eventually but in the meantime start the court process

smartiecake · 02/09/2018 09:34

Kady why does he have her nearly every weekend? I worry you are setting a precedence there and as your DD grows up that may not be what you want to do. Your life and hers will change and plans will change and need to be more flexible in the future. May be worth discussing that with a solicitor also. Good luck

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:35

I'd love to just go Kidssendingmenuts but I think I'd be too stressed to enjoy it, as I genuinely think he's so bitter and twisted that I'd be going against his wishes that he'd get the authorities involved - despite it being his own child he's hurting!

OP posts:

fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2018 09:37

I’d also change every weekend to every other weekend. When do you get relaxed time with your dd?

Also a friends ex threatened to go to the police to alert them that she was kidnapping their child if she took him on holiday.

I would not go without the proper legal documents in place. It’s not worth the hassle.

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:37

To be honest, you're right, and that was a mistake. I suppose I was trying to encourage the relationship but now that she's at school Monday to Friday I need those weekends too. I guess I was also hoping that he would reciprocate the good feeling but it's just caused problems, when I've had her on one of 'his weekend'. Seems I underestimated his sense of appreciation in my leniency, something I'll definitely be changing from start of school!

OP posts:

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:40

I couldn't agree more. Especially as I have shift work and am often away in the weekday too so I don't see her every day
Very true. Thank you for all your insights!
(what does DD mean? I ought to know!)

OP posts:

fuzzywuzzy · 02/09/2018 09:41

Dd= darling daughter

Original poster

Kady123 · 02/09/2018 09:55

Ah I see! Thanks!

OP posts:

GreenTulips · 02/09/2018 11:40

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

Starlight345 · 02/09/2018 13:50

Yes I would take him to court ask to look at contact . Depending on how far away he lives eow and one night during the week .

Yes don’t let him hold it over you to stop holidays . I have never heard of a judge ruling against a holiday unless risk of no return

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