Need help please - shoudl he still have access???

[clare3009]

Hi, I'm hoping someone can give me some advice please...
My little girl is 2 and a half, her dad and i split up 16 months ago. We've had several fallings out but I'm not sure how to handle the latest.
He's never paid maintainence and has been out of work for two months (didn't tell CSA that he's on job seekers). He does not have ANY clothes for her at his gfriend's house, she does not have her own bed (she sleeps in his gfriend's little girl's bed). He's also told me that he expects me to provide him with what she needs when she's at his house, and that I am not to expect his gfriend to buy anything for my daughter. I've had the fact that I have a fiance thrown back in my face for the past 12 odd months whenever I mention money towards her upkeep.
He's named on the birth cert so has PR, but i just don't know what to do. I'm contacting my solicitor this week but i'm not sure what she'll be able to achieve.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm desperate for some advice - has anyone else been through a similar situation?

Thanks, Clare

contact and maintenance are separate issues. however my ex has never paid maintenance so i send nothing with the kids when they go there. whether or not he pays has nothing to do with your fiance, csa should be involved if you want money ( i believe they can take a small amount off his benfits). i dont see why his gf should buy anything for her, why woud he say that when its obvious it should be him paying?

csa have been involved since feb, but he conveniently lost his job just as they were setting up the forced payment thing.
When i told him that if he's got no clothes he should go and buy some, his response was "how you expect me to buy anything with no money i dont't know, and i hope you're not expecting X to buy anything". Which I don't, it's his responsibility to provide for her.
It's not so much the maintainence that I'm bothered about, I can get by without it (just). It's his attitude that I am soley responsible, in his eyes, for providing everything - even if it's for him to use. And then there's his family - they all get involved and give me and my fiance attitude because I've dared to disagree with him.
I really want to refuse access until he can prove that he can provide for her, but because of PR, I don't know how far I can push it.
The thing that annoys me most is that DD idolises him, and it just seems that the bare minimum is completely acceptable to him.

Not surprised it annoys you, some men are just so feckless they have no idea of putting their children first rather than point-scoring of their exes.

Do see a solicitor about access - if he can't be bothered to provide a bed for her, or clothes or toys, then he's not really being a good parent, is he?

I can understand your frustration, but if your dd idolises him then I really can't see how you can justify stopping her from seeing him. If you do stop contact he will be able to get a Court Order to get it re-established. That will be expensive and stressful for all involved, not least your dd, and will take months. You will need to prove to the Court that you have a good reason for not wanting your dd to see her father, eg you think she's at risk by having contact with him. And if his family tend to get involved in these things then it sounds like you will have to them to put up with too.

I guess you need to ask yourself if all that is worth it for the sake of putting a few clothes in a bag for her when she goes to her Dad's. I'm not saying he's right, he sounds a right idiot, but I don't think stopping contact is the answer.

take a deep breath and just accept he is a prat. if you stop access over maintenance i cannot see it doing your dd any favours and if you do wind up it court it prob will not be looked on favourably. dont get sucked into any arguments, if his family give you hassle walk away. you just have to accept you cant have it your own way im afraid (voice of experience)

I dont see any reason to stop access especially since your little girl adores her daddy, as gigglin says access and maintenance are 2 seperate issues, even if your ex is on JSA he still has to pay £5 per week. I dont know what your ex expects your to provide, as long as you send your little one with a change of clothes and her favourite toy then she shouldnt need anything more than being fed, I hope he dont expect you to provide a tesco delivery ?

you have no grounds to stop access to be honest. Why do you not send through what she needs when she has visits with her dad, a sort of overnight bag....that way you know she has everything she needs and you won't sorry about that side of things. I do this with my children although granted when my dh children come here we do have things for them here, but that is our choice.

let the CSa sort out the money side, I would suggest you don't even discuss it with him...you will only just get angrier.

Keep doing your best for your dd I am sure you are doing a great job, but if you refuse access you will cause lots of hurt that may be flung back in your face when she is older.

And don't forget how your dd will feel if you send her without clothes. (I know you haven't proposed this, but please don't be tempted) My dh's ex used to send her children with ripped and clothes and no underwear to our house. Of course we had clothes for them and bought plenty for them, but they were always so embarrassed and humiliated that their mum hadn't packed even the basics for them. Especially since they had piles and piles of brand new clothes at home. I always tried to smooth it over and pretend like it was perfectly normal so they wouldn't be upset, but they knew....
I just want to reiterate what everyone else has said. Please try to separate the visitation issue from the maintenance.

Sofia - that is the same reason that we have everything my dh children need here, not matter how much new clothes were bought and send home with them they came with the oldest, dirtiest clothes their mum could find. This is surprisingly common and I don't understand it all, I go to extremes to make sure my children are neat and tidy and have what they need.

Clare - I know you have mentioned going to your Solicitor but I advise you not to go and keep your money, they only ones who benefit are the Solicitors in lots of these cases.

One time I actually repaired a few holes (I'm a bit handy at sewing) in some pyjamas and dsd was so delighted that she kept going on about it to her mum and we got new clothes sent with them for months and months afterwards.

I second Hayes' post. In fact, I think that the advice you've had generally is really good. I agree that it's infuriating that the courts will not even discuss maintenance when dealing with Children Act cases but, on the other hand, it would be much worse if only the rich were able to rely upon the Courts for a contact order, don't you think? If you have a free appointment with your solicitor, then you might as well go along - may as well hear it from the horse's mouth! But if it's going to cost you, then don't bother. S/he will be able to do nothing except listen to you and repeat what various MNers have already said.

Hi Clare, whilst I understand your anger and frustration I would strongly advise that you continue to allow access. I'm not sure how things work legally over there - I'm in Ireland but I speak from experience both as a daughter who grew up without her Dad and a mother whos in a simular situation to yourself. Myself and ex bf were fit to kill eachother at the time of our split and as much as I disliked him and felt him completely oblivious to the financial needs of our child I could not ignore her need for her dad in her life. she idolises him and despite his shortcomings in other areas, he is a fun and caring dad. Obviously you will have other considerations than financial but I would say unless you are genuinely concerned for her safety then allow her to see her dad. I am still resentful of my mother for the picture she painted for me of my dad.

best of luck

Hi Clare,
It is really annoying. I split with xp when ds was 11 months old (he is now 16 months). XP has refused to pay maintainence, CSA involved - gave him a nil assessment as he doesn't have a job, he has shed loads of assets and 5 months down the line the CSA are now assessing these and looks like he will have to pay a fair bit - though he is a lawyer and I'm sure will find another loophole. He does buy some clothes and shoes for ds but is desperate not to give me any money. xp adores ds, has him 2 nights a week and is now taking me to court for more access. At the end of the day he has a financial responsibility to his son like your xp - doesn't matter what you and your fiance have or haven't - he should be contributing to his ds's upkeep. I have been so tempted to stop access as I feel I have been so reasonable but like the other posters say the court look at it quite seperately. But being in a very similiar situation to you - I can really empathise and know how frustrating it is. I feel I am always putting my ds first and it doesn't do me any favours. However I know that I am doing the right thing and hopefully when ds is old enough to understand and remember things - things might be a bit more sorted. I found the CAB quite useful too - free advice.

Thanks for all your posts...
We started off 16 months ago with 50% access, straight down the middle, worked around his shifts. He then threw that back in my face when he couldn't be arsed to look at the rota I drew up for him so he knew where he was.
We've now moved on to 2 nights a week plus alternate weekends, and even now he cancels his nights, arranges to go out when he's got her and palms her off so that he can do other stuff.
I sincerely believe in my daughter's right to see her daddy, but i can just see so much heartache for her in the near future.
With regards to the clothes, I have never ever sent her off with more than 1 full change of clothes in her bag. Apparently this weekend, I've always sent her with extra clothes and pyjamas and they've "come to expect it".
I'm sick to death of the goal posts constantly moving, I wouldn't have minded if he'd have said to me, do you mind packing a few extra things cos I'm struggling, but I get no communication. And then I'm the most evil person in the world when my ability to mind read lets me down.
I know of male friends who go through such hell to see their children, and i have never been like that. I ask him if he can look after her for a week in the 6week break and he says no. The most incredible thing he's said to me was he'd like to quit his job and look after dd full time, but he'd need paying from somewhere - he wanted me to pay him to look after his own daughter!
Sorry, this has become a rant now. Better go to work instead...

CLare I totally understand how irritating this is. I have just finished nearly two years in court over access and it has been so stressful for the kids. On reflection I can see it was necessary because X is a violent man (to me and the kids) but it really has been painful.

As far as money goes I agree seperate it off. My view is that my X will never ever pay me anything and the CSA have been worse than useless so I will have to do everything myself. The kids will know when they are older the sacrifices I made and that their father couldnt be bothered to contribute but for now they need to be kids and enjoy their lives free from any guilt tripping.

He constantly gives me lists of things they must have with them when they come over so that he can do things with them and frankly it makes me furious as he demands changes in clothes and swimming things. In the end though fighting such a total T*er who lets the tyres down on my car and generally has no moral code with which to live brings me down to his gutter type level and I will not go there.

I hope that my kids know that I tried my best and never feel that I kept them from having a relationship with him whatever my feelings towards him. The only thing that would stop me is if he hurt them again.

I'm in a similar position. I have an ex who refuses to even get a job as he would have to pay maintencance. He even takes out loans so CSA cant take maintenance!

I have never stopped access though. I have never even bad mouthed him in front of the kids.

We split nearly 8 years ago, the kids arent bothered and are seeing for themselves what useless tosser he is.

But as I have never ever stopped access, I even used to take the kids there-the kids can never blame me. I still have the solicitos letter that shows I wanted him to have access!

'I have never stopped access though. I have never even bad mouthed him in front of the kids. '
post by AMAZINWOMAN.
she speaks sense!my parents split up,i was 13 but my sisters were young.we had to live with constant bad mouthing from my mum,it was awful,infact still is too this day.hes not a perfect dad i know that but hes my dad.i wish my mum could have handled it like amazinwoman said!
please dont stop access,he does sound a bit of an idiot but hes your dd's daddy.

After having two days to think about it, I'm not going to do anything with the access. I've never wanted to do anything that would potentially harm my relationship with dd in the future, and this would. I think it's been sheer desperation and frustration that's made me think about it.
Have written a letter today to his family (which I'm not sending)which has helped me a great deal.

Well done to you!!

I find that writing letters that I don't send is very helpful too.

good for you, helps to get it all out even if no one else sees it

You're doing the right thing, Clare, and it makes you the bigger person.

The writing letters thing is great. It's really helped me on several occasions.

thanks kittypants for letting me know that im doing the right thing by not stopping access. sometimes i find it difficult not telling the kids what a tosser etc he is and he really doesnt deserve access-but i still bite my tongue

thanks kittypants-ill carry on what im doing

If X's family give you grief, it occurs to me that just maybe they can be turned against him instead.
Nothing confrontational, but maybe a visit to the other grandparents ?
Most would love to see their g'kids more often.

It is inevitable that they are more likely to take his side over yours. but if my son was acting like a tosser, not getting a job, and treating my grand daughter badly then I'd be up for some sharp words.
Gently does it of course.

amazinwoman.you sound like your doing a fab job!it must be hard not to say things !