Do I need my husband's permission to take my children on holiday abroad?

[namechange987]

I want to take my two DCs on holiday. Me and my husband are separated. I have the same surname as them on our passports. Do I need his permission? He usually has them every other weekend, when it's convenient for him, so it wouldn't need to infringe on the time he usually has them.

Strictly speaking you need permission from anyone else who has parental responsibility for them. You may not get asked for anything but might be best to take a signed letter anyway. Also take their birth certificates

It depends, is there a child arrangement order? If so double check the wording.

'You can take a child abroad for 28 days without getting permission if a child arrangement order says the child must live with you, unless a court order says you can’t.'

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

I have to tell ex if communication between ex and DC will be more difficult, but with European roaming change and good wifi, I found it better where we were on holiday than where we live

Good luck 🍀

Oh, I travelled with the CAO and a print out of the web page just in case. I didn't need it in the end, but it meant that I didn't stress about it.

Technically yes, but anecdotally my experience, like most MNers who get questioned about their relationship to their kids in passport control:

• they only ask if you have different surnames
• it only happens (in my experience) on the way back into the UK
• they've only ever wanted to see the birth certificate, even though I always carry a permission letter. I've even offered to show it one time and they weren't interested

I think that Canada and South Africa are particularly strict, though - so I would get the letter if you are visiting either country.

Do you think he is likely to object?
For the purposes of good relations I would definitely speak to him before, but without your history difficult to say

Thanks all. He's probably unlikely to object but his behaviour is so unpredictable and I think he likes the fact that I have the children so I sort of have to "answer to him" or run things by him, whereas he pops in whenever he feels like and doesn't have to keep me in the loop.

I will probably talk to him but do it in a casual kind of way. It would severely piss me off if he objects when he goes away without telling me (not that he has to tell me but we have a child with an illness who is frequently admitted to hospital and it would be advisable to let me know if he's not going to be available in an emergency).

As for it interfering with contact, he doesn't even contact me when he knows his children are unwell or have a hospital appointment, he would likely not even notice if we left the country. I will tell him though because I just wouldn't feel right not to. I just hope he doesn't use it as an opportunity to try to control me or them,

Thanks all.

Namechange987. Yes you do. If he won't agree you will need to put in an application for a Child Arrangements Order quickly. My ex tried to block our holiday (despite not having seen DD for 3.5 years....) - it was all about control and getting me to answer to him etc. Judge agreed holiday within minutes and also gave me a Residence Order (so I don't need to ask him again for holidays under a month and now have residency.) His face was an absolute picture. The problems we encountered were only on our return to the UK - they went through everything and spoke to DD. They didn't however want to see the court order - just birth certificates, itinerary and boarding passes. Then matched up birth certificates with passports. He asked us all individually where we'd been, stopped off at, why we'd gone, and then who we each were. P.s. Yes, same with my ex - no interest whatsoever when DD has been ill, in hospital etc.

I don't live in the same country as my dh most of the year and fly quite frequently with my ds. We both have the same surname so maybe that's why I've never had any issues?

S1 child abduction act makes it an offence to take u16 y/o out of the country without permission off all parents/guardians.

However, a defence to this is:

(C) the other person has unreasonably refused to consent

I have a different surname and a different nationality so I get asked when travelling alone, but not when dh is with us. But only on the way into the uk.

Manclife that is misleadingly inaccurate and is not all the facts.
See the link I put to the gov website to see the more comprehensive and correct information.

It's unlikely the OP has a child arrangement order, given the separation is quite recent and has not yet become a divorce?

@AnnettePrice which bit is misleading?

It's missleading by omission.
Quoting the child abduction act as though it is the only part of law covering parents and taking children abroad.
Ok, it probably covers the OPs situation as no CAO had been mentioned by OP (from what I can remember).
But do remember that people will read MN for this information not always taking in the nuances of the exact circumstances of the OP especially if you don't put the qualifying information that is exact to the OP.

Ok, very long winded, but I hope you can see what I mean

I get what your saying, however even the link is easy to misread as it implies, if not read properly, that upto 28 days is always okay, which it isn't. Point taken though.

Thanks all. No, we don't have a CAO. This is all very new to me. Although we've been separated for 6 months, initially I thought we could be reasonable about it all but then he would go weeks without seeing them and then want to see them a few times in quick succession. Then we settled in to an arrangement of every other week and he was meant to have them one weekday afternoon and overnight but that barely happened and then has just been forgotten about. Even once things settled down, if he can't do a weekend, supposedly because of work, he'll be vague about it and just tell me he can't as if it's fine because I'll pick it up regardless. Of course I will and do because they're my children, but it really pisses me off to be treated as though his time is worth more than mine.

Anyway, he's useless with arranging anything. He hasn't given me a firm idea of what he'll contribute financially - he has been covering nursery costs and me everything else, but now the costs are changing and he needs to figure it out. I've just seen a link on the gov.uk website about a Parenting Plan so I might look at that. The shitty thing is that if I try to do things more formally he will make out that I'm the one making things difficult and I should be more amicable. But I've tried that and it's got me no where.

Sorry for that off topic rant! I'm just sick of having all of the responsibility yet I don't get all of the choice.

You can take them out of the country for 28 days if you have a Residence Order.

But she doesn't. So can't.

Yes, exactly. It might be a good idea if she put in for a Residence Order anyway.

From what I've seen a residence order is only for if you can't reach an agreement with your ex and you have to attend mediation. Is that right? From the beginning I've suggested mediation/ counselling to work out a way to do this together but it's fallen on deaf ears.

It's about where the child lives (and is returned to) namechange987. But it also gives you the right to take the child out of the country for up to 28 days without seeking the permission of the other parent. You could go through the process of formally inviting him to mediation, getting the certificate if he doesn't want to attend, and then doing the application for the travel order and Residence order. There are exemptions to having to do mediation first.

Why bother? She has a statutory defence if she's just going away on holiday for a week or two.