How/when to tell dd that her father doesn't want contact

[ladymuck]

A friend has requested that I ask for MN wisdom on this one.

Her dp left when their dd was 11 weeks old, ahving been together for 3 years. Since then he has had their dd for a day over the weekend, dropping to fortnightly visits more recently. A month or so ago he wrote to my friend's solicitor to say that he would be stopping all contact (due to the bad relationship between the parents). Their dd is now 3, and the dp is getting married shortly. He still lives fairly close by.

So my friend is wondering what should she say to her dd, and how should she broach it. All the books she has read start off on the assumption that the dad would have been living with them before breaking off contact. In this case the child would have only known her dad through the contact visits. The dad is also not providing any financial support, though he may have to provide a lump sum following a court case later this summer.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

I am firmly of the school that believes don't fix what isn't broken. Basically unless she asks don't broach the subject. It may be that your friend's dd doesn't even miss her dad and if there's no contact she probably will forget him pretty soon too.

Hi Ladymuck,
My ex doesn't have much contact with my dd (who is also 3), although he hasn't said that he didn't want any contact at all. I haven't really broached the subject with dd, but when she asks for her dad I just tell her that he's busy, or at work, or if I'm feeling angry with him, I tell her that her daddy's not here but her mummy is. IMO I think 3 is too early to be told that your daddy doesn't want to see you. I would just not mention him anymore, and if she asks then answer as above. HTH.

Is there a risk that there will be a backlash when the dd is older, and that she will blame her mum?

Well, us mums always get blamed for everything anyway
Seriously, I don't see why the mum would be blamed for the father not wanting any contact. The little girl will ask questions when she needs answers, and at some point she will learn that her dad ceased contact. IMO it's more likely she will blame the father but you never know.

I think this is very delicate. How it is handled would be important for any child. I think it is absolutely WRONG to say "your father isn't a part of your life because he doesn't want to see you" - that would make anyone feel rejected and unloveable.

The key phrase for me is what was contained in the letter to the solicitor - that he is stopping all contact "due to bad relationship between the parents". Granted, I am not divorced/separated, so have no experience with dealing with a child/ex. But, I think both parents have an absolute duty to move heaven and earth to set aside their own differences as much as possible, and keep things civil for the sake of their child. You mention a pending court case, which of course, gives an indication of an adversarial situation. Is there nothing your friend and her ex can do to improve the situation?

She might not be able to stand the sight of him (and may think he's a tosser), but if at all possible, she and her ex-dp owe it to their daughter to agree that what is paramount is protecting their dd's physical and emotional well being.

I find it so sad to read that a father doesn't want any more contact with his DD but it happens all the time. Agree with Earlybird that a child doesn't need to know what the father is feeling, ie he doesn't want to see her. This is probably coming from the girlfriend that he is about to marry even though there is no excuse. I think if it were me, I would not broach the subject at all and I would probably say when DD does start asking that he lives abroad. However, can your friend try to repair the bad relationship just so that he does see his DD?
I have a friend whose relationship broke up soon after her DS was born. Her DP visited 3 - 4 times but as she didn't want to have sex with him, he stopped making an effort to see DS. He saw his DS at 9mths and then nothing. Then DS at the age of 5 starts to ask about his father. Friend asked me for advice and I told her that she has to put her feelings of utter hatred aside and she has to inform ex that DS wants to see him while at the same time to DS she has to say what a good person, etc her ex is. After a few months of umming and ahhing, friend contacts ex to say that DS wants to see him and a meeting is arranged. He takes DS out for an hour or two. And when the ex had left, DS asks his mother "Do you think he liked me?" When I heard this I cried and it still upsets me to think about it. She of course had to be very positive about ex for the sake of DS but of course the ex hasn't been seen since.
Childrens' self-esteem is SO important, and if they don't feel unconditional love from both parents, they need careful and very considerate handling so to not have any issues later on.

Dear ladymuck....my dd who was 13 yesterday has never seen her father.
After being with him for 5 yrs when I became pregnant he didn't want to see me anymore!
She has asked about him over the years and she has seen photos of him....
What I said was, that it had been me he hadn't wanted to be with....in reality I had tried everything to let him know about her so he could have had contact with her...sending photos and letters and reporting on how she was doing at school....but I never got a single reply...I never told her about this as I think it would have been too upsetting....If she had asked then I would have said I tried everything.
She hardly mentions him at all now....he only ever comes into conversation when I comment on certain manerisms being like his.
Maybe one day in the future she may want to try and find him...I have kept as much information for her as possible....but for now she is quite happy and content not wanting to know anything else about him...she is a gorgeous, well balanced girl!!!

Well done Israel, it must have been awful for you but you have obviously put your DD's interests first and have won with flying colours.

Oh israel, that made me tearful. My daughter hardly ever sees her father either and, at 3, I don't think your friend's child will notice that he's stopped visiting too much. I would go down the 'he's busy' etc line. Children will work it for themsleves when they're older...I hope!

I agree that your friend doesn't need to tell her daughter that her father has rejected her - it's knowledge that's surplus to requirements at that age! The weasel words about the bad relationship between the parents being the excuse for not seeing the child sound like he is doing the typical male thing of making the woman responsible for his choices ("your mum was such a bitch, I couldn't come and see you" ); it doesn't matter how bad his relationship with his ex is, he has a responsibility for the emotional as well as financial well-being of his children. If your friend can face it, maybe she could try to negotiate with her ex about his parental responsibility - or is there a teeny bit of her that is relieved that this guy will no longer be part of her life? I wouldn't blame her if she was, but for her daughter's sake (and long term, her own) I would struggle to ensure that this irresponsible man is given every chance to discharge his parental responsiblity. It will be far easier for her and her daughter in the long run, if he cannot point at your friend as the cause of his not forming a relationship with his daughter; and it will be much better for her self-esteem if he is not a far away stranger on a pedestal.

Keep a copy of the letter for her when she is old enough to care, and deal with it as sensitively as she can when her dd asks. She will soon realise that it was not her mothers fault...
Is there a cahnce he is calling her bluff to fall into line as sort of emotional blackmail?

What a wicked man he is. My instinct is to say she'd be better off without this monster in her life. It makes me sick that there are men like this. And he should be paying - what about the CSA?

It is so hard, my DS is 4.5 and hasn't seen his father since last summer (he is also dd's father and he's only seen her about 3 times). Ds took about 6 months before he started asking why he can't see his daddy anymore, and he asks about once a fortnight now. I say the usual 'he's busy', but that doesn't work, and ds says 'I don't want to be 4, I want to be 3 then my daddy will see me'... What do I say to that??

It is difficult to take all the blame, ds thinks it is me that is stopping him. But I don't like to bad-mouth ex-p either.

Aloha - don't even go there! Guy is driving round in a £70k Massarati (sp?), but has managed to persuade the CSA he should only pay £30 per week (which he hasn't so far, and everything is under appeal anyway). CSA phoned my friend to let her know that they would be writing to his employer - he is a director and major shareholder of the company (which he set up with a friend), so fat lot of good that will do.

Up until recently the dd had 2 of everything - the dp and gf even through a big birthday party for her (end of March).

I guess some of the mum's concerns are a) the ex-dp still lives nearby, so there could be accidental sightings, and b) yes, the parents can't get on, but how can she convey this to her dd, when the contact has been going on for 3 years (usually using other people for the actual handover). Hopefully the dd will forget over time, but currently she is still talking about/asking about her dad. Sounds as if the mum should brush off any questions for now? Is that the concensus?

The letter to the solicitor goes on about how this loss of contact is all in the best interest of the dd...

Doh - "threw a big birthday party"...

I'm not sure what you mean by "brush off any questions, Ladymuck, but certainly she should answer the questions, just not tell her little girl that her daddy doesn't want to see her, but stick to the "he's busy" line. If that makes sense.

Hmm, it is so difficult. I have a good excuse for my kids' deadbeat dad, because he lives far away - that one will last for a couple of years. But if he's round the corner, that is certainly more tricky. "He's busy working" is really the only thing I can come up with. I think whatever excuse your friend uses, the main thing is to stress to the child that it is not her fault that Daddy doesn't see her - she has got to know she is worth seeing - and to provide her with as much reassurance and love, and self-esteem, so that this b**tard's neglect doesn't damage her long term.

Its the first time that I've written to you all at Mumsnet and I logged on this evening to ask how I should handle my 3 year olds frequent questions about 'Where's my Daddy?' and I find that I am not alone and that so many of you are struggling with the same questions. My dd 'knew' her dad for about 18 months before he disappeared from her life despite my best efforts when she was 2.5 years old. Now she asks about him regularly and asks if he loves her, to which I always reply "yes". There are times when she looks singularly unimpressed with my 'he's at work' answer and to be honest I really despised him for his treatment of her. I just worry about her future well being and how his rejection might affect her. I do take comfort from Israel's well adjusted 13 year old and I only hope that I can do half as good a job as she obviously did.

How about telling the "truth." Daddy loves you but doesn't know how to tell you as he is having problems/not feeling well (or something similar that works in the vocabulary of a 3 year old) right now. Maybe when daddy is older he will be able to talk to you about things and tell you himself that he loves you.

I know this sounds like you are shielding your child from what a s**t her daddy is, but in some ways it must be true and may help your dd to explain it to herself.

I am having a similar, but opposite problem of explaining to my 3 year old why he can't see his stepsiblings as their mother is not allowing my dh to see his children. She does this periodically for various warped reasons of her own. When my ds was younger it didn't matter, but now he remembers his sister and brother and wants to see them.