Can he just take them?

[meandmyfour]

Please help if you can. There is a non molestation order in place with my ex partner (we have four children). He's already breached it and the police are keen to question him. I'm finding communication with him incredibly stressful and feel at breaking point. When the order was taken out in January we didn't hear from him til mid April. Before he got back in contact I made holiday arrangements for the last week of July to take the children away for a week. He is demanding to have them at the same time and it 'telling' me that he is going to have them. There is nothing formal in place, no regular agreed contact. No financial support whatsoever. I don't even know where he lives. Mediation won't work because of the police/domestic violence issue and I have no funds to legal help. I'm at my wits end. I feel bullied, intimidated and unsure of my rights. He is not breaching the order currently, we are just communicating by email but even that is making very stressed. Can I/should I stop all contact and tell him to get a solicitor to contact me? I've tried to be so reasonable and explained that we booked the holiday dates months ago and that August is available to him to have them. I don't know what else I can do. Thanks so much

Does he have parental responsibility? (Is he named on birth certificate? Also dependent on children's ages and whether you were married) if not then it's a clear cut 'no he can't'

However if he has PR, legally the children couldn't be removed from him assuming they were seen to be being cared for and you would be advised by the Police to seek a contact/residence order via the courts.

But given the circumstances there would be an expectation of you as primary carer to keep your children safe and this sounds anything but, please do not feel pressurised into thinking you have to allow contact. You do not.

Advise him via a solicitor that you want him to apply for a contact order via the courts. A decision will be then made about what is in the best interest of the children. The courts do favour children having continued contact with their parents if it is safe and reasonable to appropriately arrange and facilitate (which you could not be expected to do)

I would be surprised if he isn't breaching the non molestation order by emailing you as this is a form of indirect contact.

Seek legal advice, you should not be intimidated into agreeing anything.

Thank you so much for your response. He has just emailed again, stating that he will be taking them on this particular date in July. I don't know what's wrong with me - I'm just not coping with this at all. do I have to acknowledge his emails and reply to him? I am desperate to hand this over to a third party but have no funds. I am at the point where I want to block his number and email.

Thanks again x

You have a non mol currently in your favour. You should get legal aid.

He should not be contacting you.

Just be out when he says he's coming unless its been agreed and arranged at least in the short term until you can get legal advice

No you don't have to reply!!

Ask police (could ring 101 non emergency) and ask advice about whether he is in breach - I'm certain he is)

You could also speak to CAB or woman's aid for guidance. It is becoming more difficult to access legal aid but not impossible, approach a solicitor and ask.

Enrol a friend to help if you can as you are understandably sounding overwhelmed.

My main thought is don't just leave this.

One of the DV evidence criteria for legal aid/family law is a current none moll or one issued within the last two years however loads of firms that do legal aid have waiting lists. Get yourself on one.

In the mean time you can get free quality legal advice from here

www.childrenslegalcentre.com/index.php?page=contact_us

As things stand at the moment you do not have to do anything,one thing to consider is the wording of the none mol.

Does it contain the line not to contact directly or indirectly if so unless it also says "apart from aranging child contact" or words with the same meaning then his email is a breach,if it also says he cannot come to your home (unless it contains the same child contact exemption) then that would also be a breach.

It would make sense should you wish to get the order extended when it runs out that you do nothing that encourages him to breach like inviting him to your home or communicating with him so check the wording.

I expect the children's legal center will tell you to do nothing about contact and do not communicate about it and that if he says he's going to turn up just do not be there until such time as he starts the process of contact orders.i expect they would advise this even if the non mol allows him to contact you about seeing the kids.

Having a protection order is a very good reason to not communicate unless via a third party that is appropriately qualified.a judge would be highly unlikely to even consider frowning apon those actions

Thank you again. Brilliant advice. The non mol does state that he can only communicate to arrange access which is why I've tried to communicate with him in a reasonable why. That has now broken down and I want to stop all communication until something formal is in place. I just needed to know if I'm 'allowed' to do this or could I then be accused of 'blocking' him.
Exhausted :( Very worried about the affect this is having on our ten year old.

In a nutshell, can I email him to say that I will not be communicating with him anymore and that he should get a solicitor to contact me? Is that reasonable? I have blocked his mobile number today and would like to block his email. Maybe a bit extreme but even if just temporarily to give myself some space while I get legal help. Is it okay to do this?

Thank you all so much, sorry if these questions have been answered already, trying to think straight with the children inside on a very wet day!! AARGH!!!!!!!!!

The none mol gives him permission to talk to you about that matter it does not compel you to do so nor him to it just means he can if he fancies doing so.

Give the children's legal center a quick call tomorrow just to check (after all you do not know who anybody on the net advising you may be).

I would be surprised if they don't say much the same as I have,they may also give you additional options that you could think about as well.so it's really worth the call.

Seriously tho get yourself on a waiting list for a face to face legal appointment it will reassure you lots.

Oh and save all his communications

Are his emails hostile threatening or anything like that?

As that makes a difference to the response required (if you really feel like responding I wouldn't bother right now)

I will definitely call the legal centre tomorrow, first thing. His emails aren't so much threatening but I feel like I'm being bullied. He is just repeating in one or two lines that he will be taking the children on the same date...he follows with smiley faces. It actually feels quite sinister.

It's the fact that he thinks he can just come and take the children without my permission and he just keeps on repeating again and again that that is what he's going to do...despite me trying to reason with him and offer him other dates. I seem to be so gripped by fear, it's got totally out of perspective probably, I've just lost my emotional strength.

Ok then a simple,

The children have a pre booked arrangement on that day so will not be available.

Then nothing,if he keeps on banging on about that date just ignore or say I'm unprepared to enter into repetitive conversation please refrain from continuing with this as I have already confirmed it is not possible.if you are unable to do so then lets keep communications via a solicitors firm I will obtain one ASAP.

Personally if I had already said "not possible" I would ignore anything that kept on about the same date

Block his email for sure, you do not have to communicate with him directly, tell him to go through a solicitor and that you will not communicate with him further, that is my advice hon, I've blocked my ex and we arrange contact through a third party! I really feel for you, the intimidation is paralysing I know :( but it's ridiculous that he thinks he can tell you he is taking the children when you have already booked holidays!! If there is no court order in place ATM you can stop communication and contact and wait for him to get one (recent advice I have had from my solicitor) xxx

I know how you feel, stop all contact. Ignore ignore ignore.

It is bullying, he knows you will be anxious and stressed and is saying things to perpetuate that. Your responses will just make it worse, I've been there myself.

I got legal help- I had to pay a contribution. I got it because I had evidence of emotional and verbal abuse. The non mol is yours. You need to set contact times and dates and possible seek a prohibited steps order to ensure he sticks to those, especially with the threats about the holiday time.

Stay strong, trust me you will get stronger.
You do not need to take his shit and in my experience the courts will agree. Good luck

Don't block his email.

Him emailing you is future evidence to help extend your order.

I could cry. Thank you ladies, so much. Such comfort from your words xxx I have now drafted a 'final' email to him stating that I am blocking him and that all communication must now be via a solicitor. Do I definitely need to instruct a lawyer or should I wait to see if he does? I will definitely go and get advice though..
NeedsAsockamnesty - I know you're right about not blocking emails but I'm so stressed right now I feel I have no choice, even if it's just temporary. Have enough records of texts/emails to be going on with!!!XXX

I really would get yourself a solicitor. For you it's a no brainer, obviously I'm assuming that your income would mean you get 100% legal aid given that you have the none mol we know that you would get it (if income allows) so why the hell wouldn't you.you have nothing to lose by doing it.

Your ex no matter what his income will not be entitled to any legal aid (he could get court fees exemption as that's still about) but he won't be able to obtain much actual legal advice without paying for it that gives you an advantage.

First thing tomorrow phone the children's centre they will only help if you have not engaged a solicitor so if you do it before you contact one then you can honestly say nope I don't have one. That's mainly for your own reassurance as it could take weeks and weeks to get a legal aid solicitor and in the mean time its always good to know that you have taken professional advice.