Having to do it all

[Judy1234]

Parents can get contact if their partner denies it, at least in theory. They can also get money when the conditions for that are met. The one thing they cannot get is any help from their ex or involvement with the family. I can cope with him not paying anything. I can cope with having had to pay him what feels like all our money on the divorce but I find the 100% care and working full time of all 5 children so unfair and yet you cannot force contact on a parent. And then I read about fathers fighting to get every other weekend. My ex lives 5 minutes away in a 5 bed detached bought for cash (my cash in my view) and has never once had them to stay. I can be comforted by people saying at the end of the day the children will realise who is seeing them and dealing with them but today in particular back from holiday with them all, back to work with 1001 things to do with work and at home and school going back soon, there is just far too much to be done. Yet so many fathers (usually it is men) disappear or choose to have no contact but that problem gets so much less press than fathers denied contact that they want.

I just don't understand how someone could love their children and then choose not to see them (he sees 2 of them only for 2.5 hours a week most weeks and takes them to his parents about 4 nights a year).

Anyone any suggestions about getting more contact which is to help me really not the children who aren't bothered by it. If I weren't looking after them they would be in care yet there seems so little recognition for what I do. No huge rewards and what teenagers thank you anyway for doing their washing? I don't see why it cannot be 50/50. Also he has had 9 weeks school holiday and had the youngest for 2 nights at his parents. I have worked all summer except when we're away. It is so unfair.

I can't believe it either.

Why doesn't he have them to stay??

Wot an arse.

my ex is similar
he sees them every fortnight - thats all he wants....cant understand it - BH weekend but he hasnt asked to see them extra
hes been to EGypt with HER for fornight but not asked to take his children away at all this entire yr

can lead a horse to water but cannto make them drink
how true

I really struggled with this too Xenia. In the end I made it part of our divorce agreement that ex-H would have the children every second weekend. It is not legally binding, but somehow agreeing to it in public has made my ex-H stick to it mostly.

I also found that playing a double bluff worked with my ex-H. If I chased him to see more of the children he would be evasive & try to get out of contact, but when I started to make out that they weren't that bothered about staying with him & we were have so much fun together etc etc - his interest went up.

Whole issue grates on my nerves bigtime & I find it hard to stomach any of the hype that Fathers for Justice get.
Good luck Xenia.

Hi Xenia,
I am also divorced and work ft, but I only have 4 children.
How to force your ex to pick up his responsibilities, the only way I can think of is via your children. "Why dont you ask Daddy to take you there?" etc.
As far as Im aware, there is no way to get him to take all the children at once. This is bitterly unfair, and lots of fathers seem to pick and choose which children they will take, thus controlling their ex wives by never leaving them child-free (god, you might go out on a date and start meeting other men if he gives you a child-free week!)
Denying contact is worse than refusing the contact that's offered, so its not surprising that it gets more coverage.
Have you got any other options, like getting an au pair to help take some of the load off your shoulders?

So angry on your behalf ladies.

To sidetrack slightly,MM,did I see it written that you have a boyfriend????

yes and he is really attentive (arent they all to begin with) BUT he has custody of his 9 yr old and its just fab - like being 15 again!!

Oh how lovely! So pleased for you.

Does your not so DH know??

I agree there is not much I can do. Others have suggested I try the they don't want to see you, they have so much fun here but I know that wouldn't work with him. This summer we had 4 Sundays (when he sees them in afternoons) when we were away or doing something. He never accepts a different time or date in lieu, just sees it as more time off or time to work for him so I think he didn't see the youngest for something like 5 weeks which is no problem to him. He never ever contacts the oldest 3 either. It was worse when he first left because they were all a home. The older ones have started to go to university now but there still is a lot to do for them, driving them there, organising things, helping them if there's a crisis over missing credit cards, just lots of time which could be shared.

I certainly agree the being denied contact is worse for a parent. But in a sense he is denying them contact so children suffer (not that they complain) whereas a father denied contact is an adult suffering which arguably is less bad than a child suffering from the absence of a parent because at least the adult is grown up.

When we divorced he was going to kill himself and then he was going to go away and never see us again. We never had a single discussion about contact and never had and he never speaks to me, just turns up every Sunday around the appointed time for the 2.5 hours which is just enough time to do a a cycle of washing and drying I think.

He probably thinks it is the only way to hurt me and I agree with the comment someone made that he probably also wants it to be hard for me to fix to go out or see anyone else too. In the summer he wouldn't tell me which 2 days he was taking the youngest to his parents' until about 5 days before presumably so I had no notice and couldn't fix anything else.

One suggestion is to say you never see them again unless you have them 50% of the time but he would just say he won't see them so that wouldn't work and I wouldn't do that to him or them anyway. It is so unfair. He has just had 9 weeks off school on holiday getting up whenever he likes, never having a broken night, being able to go and do anything he likes.

hope not as if he did would probably affect his view on our divorce settlement....BUT bollocks - am enjoying the attention and BOY do I get attention

Hi, I'm gettign dovrced at the moment, my ex left me 26th July last year when our dd was 8 months old and I was 3 months pg with our ds, he hasn't seen our dd since and has never met our ds no matter how much I try to involve him he doesn't do anything, he once text me to say that he doesn't care what we do as long as we stay away from him. BTW he left me for a barmaid from the pub he did the security for, nice guy. My solicitor told me that I could get a court order to force him to have contact but that would be worse for the children should they find out. Either way it is horrible the only saving grace is that they are so young they dont know anything about it so I really feel for you Xenia x

I read that after a divorce,over 5r0% of fathers lose contact with their kids.
That's not all evil women denying them parental rights right???

MM,I really hope as soon as divorce done and dusted you parade your new man the length and breadth of the place.
I would just love to see your dh's face!!!

Good for you girl!

v as well for you all, what arses....we have it the other way around kinda, as exwife has custody (used to be half n half before school kicked in a few years back) we do the every other weekend thing, but we have exwife showing very little interest in ds, to the point where she's never taken him on hols and fobs him off at his Grans most nights of the week (she is re married herself )

moondog = started new thread regarding new bo

You can get a court order saying contact is x days a week but if the person will not have the children then the court will not order they be handed over but you have to make them available at that time so countless parents make arrangements based on their ex turning up but if he/she doesn't turn up except 1 week in 5 they cannot force him to have them the other 4.
I don't understand how anyone with children 100% of the time and who works full time has time to find a boyfriend. Where are these boyfriends found? I work from home I suppose which makes it even harder and a lot of evenings and weekends.

I spend a lot of time on dating sites on the internet, but tbh I think Im wasting my time now. Ive been registered on one big site for over a year now, have not met anyone seriously interesting. Maybe I am just putting out the wrong signals.
You need to get out, if you work from home though. Are your older children old enough to babysit the younger ones?

We also have this cant plan in advance thing, too. I am scared of ex taking the children away altogether, I cant even look at a calendar without wondering if my children will still be with me at Christmas. He is always sayig he will come, and then not coming, as well.

Mine always comes when he says. He's always been very reliable. It's just not enough hours in my view. I think the triple whammy of having an ex husband who in practice doesn't see the children at all except those 2 hours, also working full time and solely supporting us all and thirdly having had to pay him so much on the divorce means I'm left in a sense unable to find anyone else and have any leisure time. Whereas he who was in the wrong in the divorce gets all the money and no responsibilities. Not fair.

Xenia - I have to be honest and say from everything I've read about your situation that I recognise you from another board (there are too many distinct co-incidences).

I agree totally that fathers (or mothers) who choose to stay out of their children's lives are utterly and totally irresponsible, and, dare I say it, guilty of child abuse of sorts, by denying the child(ren) contact and, hopefully, a loving, worthwhile, bond. Let alone the trauma those children might possibly suffer, with feelings of abandonment and/or (quite possibly) guilt that they drove daddy away, and/or feelings of low self esteem because they rationalise being all but abandonned by imagining themselves "not good enough" or "lovable enough".

Irrespective of circumstances, I also agree totally that when 2 supposed adults make babies, those babies should, in theory, become a joint responsibility until they are old enough to make their own way in the world. And yes, for the parent left behind, it's extremely wearing to have to be 100% responsible for everything, from the sublime to the ridiculous .... although, some parents do find, in spite of the hard work, some relief from actually being able to manage things themselves, in a way they are happy with, without interference from an ex with opposing views.

I have nothing but contempt for your ex who has waived his responsibilities practically 100%. He certainly doesn't sound like a "man".

No - it's NOT fair.

However ...... (deep breath) ..... if you are who I think you are, you are also in a far better position than most single mothers to effectively manage the situation you find yourself in. Let me stress I do not agree with that (the situation) but you have various options open to you which most single mums would die for. I know you are a hardworking, successful and respected professional woman (maybe the victim of your own success so far as free time is concerned ?), who could - in theory ? - cut back on the amount of work you accept (??) in order to free up time. I believe you have a nanny - nothing wrong with that I hasten to add, but that means your working time is enabled ..... an option which is impossible for many lower paid single mums (some of whom would not be able to afford childminder rates). I suspect from what I know of you and your work that you would also be able to employ other sorts of help (gardener, window cleaner, cleaner etc) which again, places you in an enviable position.

I must sound like a right cow, and I don't want to have a go at you because, I agree your ex-H sounds an utter sh*t, to be frank.

But, you are in a similar position to many single mums in having to do it all ..... yet a world away when it comes to actually being able to get on with your life, not least because it seems, from what you've written elsewhere, that you at least can make (very comfortable and desirable) choices about your work, time, home, children's education, etc.

The issue of free time is something you can do something about. Forgive me if I am wrong but you've described, quite explicitly, the value of the home (or at least its mortgage) several times. You could downsize, you could consider moving to a less expensive area, even taking into account business requirements .... depending on where you moved I should think you'd be capable of knocking 100s of 1000s off your mortgage, which, in turn, would mean perhaps you didn't have to accept quite so much work as your repayments would have reduced considerably ? Bingo - free time !

And I can't believe you wouldn't be able to afford a babysitter !

At this point, if I have mistakenly confused you with someone else, please accept my heartfelt apologies - I suspect anyone else reading this may well be very baffled.

Your husband's irresponsibilty is one issue, and your lack of free time is another. I can see 100% why you feel resentful of his effective abandonment but you are in a position to make free time for yourself. Okay - you wouldn't have to if he wasn't such a tosser, but you can and that's the important thing.

Otherwise, what's going to happen ? Will you complain about his lack of responsibility for the next 11 or so years until all your children are adults, whilst doing nothing to maximise opportunities for a social life ? You have every reason to be angry with him but it certainly seems that all complaints/pleadings/appealing to his better nature and so on are falling on deaf and/or ignorant ears. So you really do have to accept that he is NOT going to do what he should and you need to get on with your life without expecting any help from him.

You, Xenia, can make your life work for you. Your success should be manipulated to make you happy, you shouldn't be a hostage to it.

And really, can you imagine how "average" women, capable only of earning minimum wage who have been similarly abandonned, would ever even be able to afford to get out - to pay for a drink, or a babysitter, or a gym session ? I just cannot believe, whilst appreciating you have a large family (though 3 of the 5 are young adults are they not?), that you are incapable of getting yourself some "me" time - and in that, you are very fortunate, because not many single mums can.

You either want free time or you don't. If you do, get out there and get on with it by making the necessary tweaks. You shouldn't have to (in an ideal world) make compromises because your ex is a tw*t but failing to do this for yourself can't be blamed entirely on him.

interesting post. catsmother, I am in a similar position to xenia, except that our housing isnt yet sorted out. You make some good points, but I think it is hard to understand how difficult it is to do anything in the situation that xenia or I are in.

I am currently earning a rate per hour that most people would gasp at. Yet, I have no car at the moment. Why? because it didnt start, and I don't know a garage to take it to, assuming that the ADAC can start it for me. I don't have a spare moment in my day to take the time out to fix the car. So, we are forced to carry our shopping home on foot instead. Yes, this is inefficient, but its like people on benefits paying more because they cant afford to get to cheaper shops; only I am time-poor.
Being a single mother of many children, is like walking in deep treacle. Doing anything outside your daily routine requires advance planning, and may be pushed out at any time by something more urgent. You are constantly responsible, for everything. Most days, I just dont feel like getting up in the morning and shouldering that again, and I come on MN in the evenings, to forget about the long list of things that need doing, otherwise I would go mad.
If xenia's ex isnt giving her a break from time to time, then she never has child-responsibility-free time to clear her mind and do jobs that require deep concentration or a lot of time.

You may be right that xenia has choices. But has she got the choice of being able to carry out those choices.

xenia, the only thing I can think of that might be constructive for you is, are your children taking responsibility for any of this, or are you shouldering everything alone? Yes its not ideal that they have to grow up fast, but many children have done it before them. My eldest 2 help me a lot, looking after the younger ones in situations where another parent might be present.

Please don't get me wrong. I really want to emphasise that I think any parent who leaves it all to their ex is a shit.

I was simply trying to point out that the vast majority of single mothers (and I was one for 9 years so I understand completely what it's like) are both time-poor and money-poor. How do you sort out that car when you can neither afford to pay for it, or actually get it there, with children in tow - and then can't afford the taxi home you need because you live in the back of beyond without a regular bus because that was the only place you could afford to live ?

In my case, I would have had to get my car (which was vital for me to get to work) repaired by going further into debt. And that was a scenario I had no choice but to accept several times over.

There are mobile mechanics who will happily come to your home and repair your car in situ .... many garages will also tow and/or collect as appropriate. There's very little in the way of services which can't actually be bought if you're well off enough.

In fact, having money can buy you time in all sorts of ways ...... having a cleaner, having your shopping delivered etc.

I don't feel it my place to "out" Xenia, for one thing I may be mistaken .... but from what I have read about the woman I believe her to be there is simply no way that she would be unable to make adjustments if she wanted to (it is not my place to tell her to do so) in various areas of her life, which in turn, might save her some money, which might then free up some of her time. (One of her frequent complaints is about the amount of time she commits to work). She needs to decide where her priorities lie I suppose, and if working flat out all the time is one of them then so be it, but I am sure she does have scope for reducing the work taken on.

And I suppose I was trying to say that Xenia is very lucky to be able to make far more choices than the average single mum, who often, literally, has no actual choice at all .... no room to manoeveure, no room to make any adjustments, no scope for downsizing and so on, because all that's already been done to the nth degree and there is simply nowhere else to go (again, speaking from experience).

Having been there, I do know that doing everything often means you become brain-dead. But I fear Xenia is not making the most of the opportunities available to her (beyond the dreams of most people). She can complain about her ex forever more, but, so far as he is concerned, it is unlikely to make any difference, so what really, after some years of trying to convince him otherwise, is the point of going on about a lost cause ?

If Xenia doesn't create time for herself simply because she believes (and I'm not disputing this) her ex should be doing more, then she is effectively cutting her nose off to spite her face - even subconsciously.

CM, laughing as I type. I think I've never regularly posted on any bulletin board without being identified, not that it really matters.
FFN's comment about being time poor is the major problem. "Being a single mother of many children, is like walking in deep treacle".... good description or it's like managing a medium sized business.

Yes, you can delegate. I went to yoga in the early evening today and I was lucky to be able to pay a babysitter and when she left my daughter stayed in for another hour. I could delegate 100% and ship them off to boarding school but isn't the point that they need care from their mother particularly if the father has in effect disappeared. So delegation all the time isn't possible.

FFN, my eldest have been absolutely key to our survival really. If I have to fly off somewhere on business at 6am one of the older ones will take the youngest who are twins of 7 to school. I just had to go out to collect my daughter from the station at 11pm and her brother and his friends are here in case the twins woke up. I just had my first week without children in 22 years when I paid for them to stay on a second week of our holiday without me and the older children were their effective parents. Pity their father can't ever take them on holiday though because that feels better, more right, that a parent is parenting, something most fathers feel able to do.

It's the relentless demands all day long that are so hard on your own if you're also the sole earner. FFN described it well. It's the not having time to do the car mending or the 1001 jobs on the list and downsizing or changing work or giving up work and living on benefits for a lot of people is not really a practical answer and anyway it's my choice to put up with all this rather than move us to a 2 bed flat. I accept that is one reason I have to work a lot and also because I choose to pay school fees and support those at university. Even tonight I thought for once all 3 older ones were out. One is away for the night - fine. The second one I just had to collect at 11. The third one came back early with 2 friends who are spending the night so now my house is full of boys and of course it's lovely they feel the house is so welcoming they want to be here but not being able to share any responsibility with their father is annoying. Twins were up tonight at 10.20 which is very rare but they're still operating on the time zone of where we were on holiday so even after 9 I've not had any peace.

FFN said - constantly responsible for everything. That's how I feel.I know the older ones are older and oldest is 21 but even then they need to discuss things. They need advice on stuff. I suppose at least there's no one to argue with over decisions - I just take them all. But when my older daughter who's now home and studying for the next 2 years offered to babysit earlier this evening and the second one says she'll go to get the twins' uniform, that just felt like such a relief.

The answer is that they get older and less hassle so it's just a question of waiting and I suppose you make the effort to try to fit time in for other things like I went to yoga today but that then means a lot of other things are put back that otherwise would have been done.

Well I'm glad to hear you did get out to yoga and do something for yourself for once. I really do mean that. I hope I haven't offended you.

In no way did I want to diminish having sole responsibility, but having been there myself, I maintain that even a little extra money would have made life so much easier because it would have enabled me to choose on occasion, rather than put up with hobson's choice as usual.

I'd never ship my children off to boarding school either - but neither would I have the choice to even think about it ! Being able to pay for home delivered shopping though would have saved me hours ..... even if I only then spent that time cleaning, and therefore preventing the "stress" of a mucky home.

I can remember the night before taking some of my finals, sitting with my son in casualty for hours after an accident - whilst my useless ex couldn't apparently get there because he'd had the freedom to be out drinking that night and couldn't drive. Never mind my degree of course ... that sort of thing regularly bought home how I had no freedom at all whilst he had it all. Even if I had gone out, I wouldn't have drunk to excess because there'd have been a child waiting for me at home.

Belive me, I do know how sometimes you simply want "me" time - if only to read a book or wax your legs. Right now, I am both a SAHM (DP is out 6am to 8pm) and then, when he gets home, I work all evening and all through the weekend (for an insulting pittance). Despite having a partner now, I have no time to myself at all because I literally cannot afford to work any less hours than I do (we wouldn't eat). Until DD goes to school, it's not cost effective for me to go back to my old job - and we need more than the tiny amount I'd clear after childcare and travel.

Obviously, my partner is there to talk about the kids and so on, and he looks after our DD at weekends, but it's an unenviable situation as neither do we have any "us" time. I feel exactly as if I am wading through tar (I use that expression all the time) and I suppose although it's impossible to judge correctly how other people live their lives and to understand their "shoes", I do find myself constantly dreaming of how much easier our lives would be if I too could buy some quality time.

In truth, I sometimes get annoyed when I read what you've written because I know you're a very capable professional and I find it hard to believe that you cannot also either organise and/or delegate matters so you free up even a small amount of "you" time. It has crossed my mind that perhaps you are scared of getting "out there" again, in a social sense anyway, and that possibly you're using the "irresponsible ex" scenario as an excuse for avoiding it ? ... though I could be barking up the wrong tree.

You know, this man is probably never going to change and it's a bummer - but you do have room for manoeveure should you want to. Then of course it's a question of reappraising what's important to you and whether you're prepared to compromise in any areas which might have a knock-on positive effect. If you find you can't bring yourself to make any changes because you believe a certain standard of living is in everyone's interests, then you really need to tell yourself that though life's sh*t, you have made the decision to continue with it the way it is, for the good of your children, and accept it ..... or you will drive yourself made and possibly end up quite bitter. And whilst you have good reason to be bitter - that's not in dispute - who will end up hurting most ? ..... it certainly won't be ex-H will it ?

So, in short - and apologies for rambling - when all attempts to get Mr Useless to be a father in the true sense of the word have failed, you are left, for the sake of your own mental well-being, with the choice of putting up with it, or making small tweaks so you have a better quality of life. And you do have a choice about this unlike many other mums.

(And in the meantime, while you wait for your children to become more independent, you could fervently stick pins in a wax effigy of Mr Useless whenever you feel angry!)

That sounds very hard. I have never said my lot was worse or even as bad as women with much less money. We have any money spare each month once we've paid for childcare, mortgage, school fees etc but of course that doesn't mean we're poor in any sense except time poor. I bought time yesterday to go to yoga. I am going out to dinner with someone tonight assuming one of the older children can babysit and I've someone looking after the chilren until 1 today so I can try to catch up on some of this work. So yes that will appear like a piece of cake to many women. Part of the key is to make sure daughters in particular choose lucrative careers so they never get in a poverty bind. Make sure they sit there as teenagers looking at what their life could be like if they were an actuary, investment banker, lawyer, hedge fund manager compared with working in Tesco etc so at least they have the information to make the choices that will get them a life they might prefer even if they choose a life of poverty in a convent for sporitual reasons. We had those discussions with my father when I was teenager on the way to school picking careers and I am grateful for his advice even now.