Can you make NRP see their child?

[LightUpPenguin]

Totally the wrong way of phrasing it, I know. However I've written out two long posts already about my DD's dad and I realise that no matter how shit he is, it's not really relevant - although it was a weight off my shoulders to type it all out!

Anyway! DD's dad constantly messes her around - telling her he will call her on x day, then forgetting (or basically having something better to do), telling her he will be coming to pick her up for the day on y day and then getting the dates mixed up, or forgetting to take the time off work - you get the picture!

I've said for the past few years that as DD gets older, this will hurt her more and more. I have lied and covered for him so many times now. I hate seeing her so upset when he basically can't be arsed.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I spent the first couple of years enabling contact - paying for his petrol money, telling him the dates to do off work - because I found that if I didn't do it, he would literally not bother. After he continually took the piss and messed us around, I gave up arranging it and left it to him. He does now sort it out himself - but I'd say it's 50-50 as to whether he a) turns up on the right day and b) remembers to call her like he says he will.

What do I do? Do I just give up or do I keep fighting for these phonecalls and visits for DD's sake? And if I give up talking to him about it, how do I handle it when he goes a couple of months without seeing her, then says he wants to see her next week. What do I do when he goes without contact for a week or two, then rings up one day wanting to speak with her? These random calls or visits are actually more distressing for her - she's still relatively young (she's 5) and I've found that when she hasn't spoke to him for ten days or so, she sort of 'forgets' about him and she's so content and happy. Then he calls her or visits and she just gets upset, acts out and keeps asking me when she'll see daddy next and this carries on until enough time has passed where she settles down and is so happy again. I've encouraged contact as much as I could - my dad was shit with me, cancelling on me on days he was supposed to pick me up etc - and I was desperate for DD not to go through that too. However at this point, she seems to be more upset with him dropping in and out of her life and I've tried everything I can think of to get him involved - he never turns up to her plays, her hospital visits, anything.

I'm at my wit's end here, I really need him to step up to the plate or just fuck off because this kind of 'bare minimum' thing has been no good for her and I know it's only going to get worse. So is there anything I can do to help her? I feel so powerless and frustrated, and I'm fed up of crying when I see how easily he discards her.

In law you can't make a NRP see their child.

Your situation is hard - and yes he is not acting in the best interests of your and his DD. She deserves a regular, meaningful and relatively stable routine of contact. Not what you're describing.

What can you do? Have a frank conversation with him saying the sort of thing you have said here? Tell him that you want to agree a regular schedule with him and that you'll be sticking to it - only making exceptions in exceptional circumstances?

If this doesn't work, let him take you to court. Make sure you have everything documented and copies of everything - a diary of when contact was meant to take place and didn't, etc. When it gets there and he gets a contact order...and doesn't follow the routine he will have shot himself in the foot.

A child does best if they have both a mother and father in their life but they also need stability. He should do this as it's in her best interests as a matter of course.

I spend a lot of time helping dads (and sometimes mums) who are fighting to allow their kids to see them - this sort of thing makes people like them very, very angry.

Thanks for your reply lostdad, it's been really helpful

I've spoken to him so many times about this rationally, and he says he's going to make sure he does xyz. Then it all slips again. I used to get so angry and I'd be crying with tears of anger in front of him for what he was doing to our DD and there was just no remorse there. I stopped showing those kinds of emotions about two years ago, and I've tried being reasonable and to enter into discussions with him about how it affects DD and how we can sort this out. He either ignores me - literally ignores me to my face, in my house, or he says all the right things but there's literally no emotion there. He's never sorry, he's just completely blank. I realised last night that no matter what I say or do, he won't change - DD collapsed last week and he couldn't even be bothered to find out how she was

I've been recording contact over the last several months in a little book, just in case I need it. I've detailed when he's said he'll call her, and if he has stuck to it or hasn't. We have a routine of visits and phonecalls that he himself set the days for, but it only happens 50% of the time. How long do I let this continue? I only have a few months worth of contact note-taking, so not very much at all if he were to take me to court. I don't want it to come to that obviously - in an ideal world, he would want to see her as much as possible and not mess her around, but I don't think he'll ever change. I don't think he would take me to court anyway tbh - it would be too much like hard work for him, and he wouldn't want to pay the money. How sad is that

I felt very much the same as you only reached this point when son turned 3....

I stopped pushing for contact, encouraging...I found it much easier to cope with and was more able to support my DS...

Contact then lasted less than a year ...

I do tend to think if they aren't going to keep in contact the earlier it happens the better.

I to worte all the reasons contact didn't happen and turned up at Mediation with calendar with notes..He was mortified I had it documented.

I also would offer regular contact... ..If he doesn't turn up at that contact then he has to wait until next contact...

It has taken my DS a while to get over no contact with his Dad but now is fine 3 years later

That's really sad starlight, your poor DS

I think one of the reasons he has stayed in contact so far is because his parents nag him to do it! I don't think contact would drop off completely with his parents still around pushing him to do it, but if they weren't on the scene then I suspect within 6 months he'd have gone no contact!

He won't change unless he decides to.
If it s his personality that is how he is.

All you can do is support dd to deal with someone who pops In and out of her life and stop trying to make him be something he is not.

You not together any more you have no say really and he isn't going to listen to you.

Yes it is his loss and yes your dd suffers but you can listen to dd agree with her it's upsetting but you can be reliable and constant in her life.
Also look for other role models relatives friends who can be substitute second parent (male or female doesn't really matter )

What is the point of forcing him ? It will still end badly he is an adult making his decisions you and dd have to set your boundaries eg make it a specific day once per month for now. If he doesn't make it tough. If he makes it once per month increase. Etc. without building up dd hopes. If she sees him great if not well never mind.

Lost dad puts it very well.
Thier relationship is up to your ex to develop not you.
His points about recording what happens I say is very important. Your DD could still have a relationship with his parents? I would encourage that more.

In the nicest way possible I think that you are just setting her up for a fall.

Her dad is as he is. The sooner she learns to accept that (and love him any way or fuck him off) the better for her.

Fwiw our situation is very similar although dd is much younger. I have never chased him for contact but will always enable it within reasonable limits

It's horrible watchig her love and idolise him and him treat her like crap . What a duck!

Good points everyone! I should say I no longer tell my DD when her dad is due to visit/call anymore in case he lets her down and I have decided just to let him get on with it. I had a long chat with his parents last night and assured them that no matter what happens with their son, I want them to see DD as much as they want to and that won't change. We are all going to talk together soon and DD's dad can set days he wants to see/call her, and if he can't do it then tough shit, he will have to wait until the next time. Too many times I have had to cancel our plans, rearrange hospital appointments or leave work early because he has messed us around and actually, I don't want to be flexible with this anymore. I will take it as a bonus if he actually turns up to see his DD, but I certainly won't be chasing contact anymore and I will still carry on not informing DD about her dad's visits until I actually know he's on his way to pick her up.

Thankfully she has a fantastic stepdad who sees DD as his own and has spent the last two years doing everything DD's dad should have been doing - from the hospital visits, to the nativity plays, to teaching her how to swim.

You're all right in that I can't make my ex change and I don't think forcing a relationship between them is healthy either ... it's sad because when he's with her, they get on like a house on fire and he does genuinely seem to love her ... which is why I can't understand why he just forgets she exists 95% of the time Am I being a complete cow though by saying 'Hey, ex, you said you'd ring DD on monday and you forgot. You'll have to wait until the next time which is friday' and 'You said you were coming to see her on x date, and now you want to come on y date because you forgot to book the time off work ... no'. I've tried really hard to be flexible with his contact but he has fucked us all around so much and consequently DD has missed friends parties, or pre-school or we have buggered up our work holiday as a consequence and I always felt it was important to facilitate a relationship between her and her dad which is why 90% of the time I changed our plans to fit what he wanted to do. I feel like I need to get strict about it but I don't completely trust my judgment when it comes to stuff like this.

No you are not being a cow. I think you just about have it sussed by the sound of it. You would be wrong to prevent contact, but equally you should not have to bend over backwards re organising your plans to facilitate him when he can't get organised.

I think getting strict is the way to go. Have clear boundaries of what you will and won't accept, and stick to them. It is then his choice how he responds to that. Maybe if things are not as easy for him he will sort himself out a bit, although it sounds like that's a long shot.

FWIW you sound very fair and reasonable to me!

My DSD lives with us full time. Her mother is exactly like this. It hurts her as she is 8 now and she knows that all her friends live with their mums, and don't understand the concept of a 'step mum' who is the one at the school everyday.

It is really bloody hard. After the second year running where her mum had promised she would be at her birthday party and not turned up, I decided not to make excuses anymore. Yes, as their parents we have to protect them but I think after a certain age, lying is pointless. They get it. Often now I will say (when asked why mummy didn't turn up) 'I'm sorry about that, how do you fel about it? And usually say she is welcome to phone mum if she wants - it puts it back on nrp and shows you are there and understand.

No right answers I don't think, just support your DD as best you can. I think you need to have a frank conversation with dad about consistency, be firm.

Good luck x

Fairy, that is awful that her mum didn't turn up to her birthday DD's only 5 at the moment but I know it won't be long before she starts to understand what's going on at the moment which is why I either want him to be consistent or bugger off! I know I did the right thing to encourage contact at the beginning, and I really pushed for it as I was desperate for DD's dad to be in her life as my father wasn't, but looking back I could have just let him walk away and I truly think he would've done ... I could've spared DD the heartache When she's older, I want to be able to tell her that I did everything I could, although my mum did everything she could too but it has still left me damaged ... I went NC with my biological father four years ago, I haven't seen him in eight years ... and I've been much happier for it. There was a lot of heartache to get here though and counselling throughout my teens and twenties about a dad who flitted in and out of my life since I was 2. I just don't want DD to end up like that.

It's very sad. My son is now putting stuff together.

He asks questions about his mum that are hard to answer without putting her in a bad light - when she lied to him or acted in a way that isn't in his best interests. It's got to the point that I can see he's thinking `Uh huh. I know better than that'.

If things stay the same it's only going to get worse. I want him to think his mum is the best thing since slice bread - he's got a right to a good mum!

How old is your son lostdad?

I can't remember what age I started figuring things out ... I remember how upset I got when he would ring the morning he was due to pick us up and say 'he couldn't do it'. I didn't understand back then how he could do that to us, it felt like the world was ending! Yet I still continued to idolize him until my late teens, until my mum told me the entire truth about my bio dad - she had wanted to protect me from the truth as long as she could. I then understood why he behaved the way he did, but I spent so long putting him up on a pedestal that finding the truth out that late was really damaging. I totally understand why my mum protected me for so long but I do think it would've been easier for me to deal with if I had known years before.

That's nothing - school once had a Mother's Day show - mum PROMISED she would be there - told me in no uncertain terms that was not allowed to go.

She didn't turn up.
Luckily I'm a bitch and did go, planned to sit at the back.

DSDs little face when she realised mum wasn't there - her friend pointed at me and said 'there she is!' DSD burst into tears and said 'that's not my mummy, that's just my fairy'

I think you have absolutely done the right thing encouraging contact up to now. As lost dad says - of course we want our children to have on board, good parents. It is not always possible, so you just gave to be the best parent you can.

I agree though with you - if he cancels a plan, don't let him rearrange. He will hopefully learn.

That is heartbreaking I genuinely don't understand parents that do this, how can they not be totally consumed with guilt and shame?!