overnight contact

[Shockedandhurt]

My ex has again started up with wanting overnight contact with our 11 month old son. Apart from various serious concerns about the suitability of his living arrangements i dont think this will benefit my son in any way.
I pick DS up from nursery at 5.30 then its a quick dinner, bath and bed. Ex does not have a car so would rely on me to drop DS off. I feel that dropping him off to go straight to bed would be unsettling. Fri into sat is the only night that would be suitable for overnight. Is it unreasonable to say no as son gets no benefit and only disruption?

As I said, you are drip feeding.... I'm replying to your original post

So how do you know he's done this in front if your baby? Or are you just guessing?

If your ex was taking drugs whilst in charge of the baby you would have said that in your original post as it is the whole crux of the matter, strange that you forgot to mention it until their were people disagreeing with you

He has sex in front of the baby? How do you know?

I think it really depends on the child's relationship with the father. 11 months is very young - I didn't feel happy about DS staying overnight without me at that age. I know others might disagree. I also know it's different when it's their father, or at least it should be, but for me he would have to be heavily involved in daytime care. If they have a good relationship, then I would say do it on a trial basis - give it a month or two to see how he settles in, if it's really not working, then stop.

I would not be happy about drugs at all. Parties (if dad stays relatively sober) and sex less of an issue, as long as baby is asleep and not involved of course, although you wonder if he only has his son one night a week whether he couldn't save these for the other 6 nights

It's not ideal, but he is his father and if he wants a relationship with him and is caring adequately for him then ultimately you don't get to specify "No drugs, smoking, parties or sex". Courts/Social Services won't remove a child or block access where there is known drug use unless this "directly impacts on the child" e.g. leaving drugs where children could access them, neglect caused by parents being high while in charge of their children, etc. I think this is actually awful - but the argument will be that he can do what he wants on his own time even if it is illegal.

The lack of control you get is horrible, as a parent, to feel, but unfortunately you have to go with it and hope to god your DS manages to see through it when he's older.

If you think your DS is in danger then fight every last fight, but if it's a case of differences over lifestyle choices then I'm afraid you'll get nowhere :(

you can't possibly know that he is having sex in front of the baby. Drugs I probably wouldn't be happy with but if you have genuine concerns for your child's welfare you would seek proper legal advice in order to ensure that welfare, no? The fact you are unwilling to seek legal advice suggests that you are in fact making up these things to suit your own agenda.

Don't get aggressive just because people aren't telling you what you want to hear. No it's not nice to have to hand your child over, mine is nearly eleven and it wasn't any easier for me either and mine has 50/50 contact. But when you have a child the reality is that that child isn't just yours it also has a father with whom it has a right to a relationship.

And sometimes ex's don't live the life we would want for our children, but unfortunately when you have an ex who is also a parent to your child you have to accept that some things will be different from how you had planned them to be.

I understand that you have suggested your ex stay over at your house instead in order to have overnight contact but tbh he shouldn't have to, your son has two homes now whether you like that or not, and just as I assume you wouldn't want to stay overnight at his house he shouldn't have to want to stay overnight at yours just so he can have an overnight relationship with his child.

The sooner you resolve this the easier it will get over time. You need to try to do this amicably because you have another eighteen years of it.

Never argue with stupid people.......they have years of experience on you.

OP, stop dripfeeding.

We eat F4J for breakfast round here.

The f4j is a name excuse always bandied about by contact blocking mothers....

Well, this thread has gone strange. I thought OP had perfectly understandable concerns actually...

Understandable concerns, sure, but not an understandable way of dealing with it. Mothers (or fathers) do not have any legal right to withhold contact despite what some people believe..!

I agree with Berstie. It is hard to judge without knowing the full story. It is all very subjective. The country I come from don't recommend o/n with absent parent until at least one and if it goes to court can sometimes be 2 or 3 yrs.

I must admit, I always thought it was normal for overnight contact to be started closer to age 2 or so rather than under 1, but I accept I'm a bit PFB about it. DS was still breastfed to sleep at 11 months and if I ever went out (rare) he'd still be up when I got back.

I think it really depends.

There is no set recommendation. But op states he already has good contact.... So if he's good enough a parent for that, then overnights is the next natural step

I wonder why so many people believe dads to be the lesser parent.... We both have equal responsibilities

I read your post and no I could see no reason why not...If there are serious concerns about contact that is different to a Dad spending time with their little ones..

I am not really sure what the concerns are... Is he having contact now? how is that going?

I am female and wish my ex could actually be bothered to be involved...The men do need chance to bond with little one's..I also agree it doesn't have to be all singing dancing time with the NRP some routine stuff is good. Son is settled by staff at nursery for naps so he will be used to been settled and sleeping in other places...

You may have concerns but your post comes across that you just don't want it

Shocked and hurt- this thread is indeed very strange and I would agree sounds weirdly like Fathers for Justice!!!!!

Here's my twopennysworth:

Your concerns are VERY valid. In my experienced opinion, this case is bound to go to court at some point. Well, at least, it might so brace yourself. The good thing about court is that if you're well prepared, the judges can see who's in the right. I think you would be wise to start sniffing around for evidence of your ex's bad habits. If you can take photos of the poor state of his house etc, great. I would also get legal advice immediately. I would not enter into any discussions with him. I would minimise contact and keep my child safe. I disagree vehemently with most of the posters above. Yes the court do grant access & overnights to NORMAL daddy's. This man however does not sound like a normal Daddy and you need to stand up and keep standing up as you have been doing in this case for your child's welfare. Best of luck and private message me if you like.

To the OP - sounds like you are looking for reasons to prevent overnight contact.

The sad thing is that if he takes it to court - and unless you make abuse allegations - overnight contact WILL take place at some point. You may be able to delay it, true. But you won't stop it.

But at what cost?

You'll end up paying a shed load of cash, turning a lingering dislike of your ex into a burning hatred and it'll be something that most definitely will affect your DS and his childhood.

It's natural that you're anxious about his safety when your DS is not with you. But - and speaking as a father - I have the same concern about my DS when he's with my ex.

Speak to your ex, OK? If you can't be civil - try mediation. It's too important to leave to chance (to important to leave to people on Mumsnet to be honest ). Even if it turns out your ex isn't a perfect' dad your DS will benefit a lot from having an average' dad.

Get legal advice.
If it goes to court because of the overnights, if you really suspect drug use, then you can request drug testing. But, he can also request the same as you.
Contact and overnights does not have to be a school/nursery night. It can also be at the weekend. This will add to the quality time.

I would not minimise contact, because surely this will annoy the ex, who will then seek legal advice etc. Seems to be the norm that courts give alternate weekends, christmas, birthdays, holidays etc.

I wouldn't stop communicating with the ex either. Why would that even be considered? With the exceptions of abuse, parents should be communicating with each other like adults. Afterall, it's in the best interests of the child to act like adults, and put their own feelings aside.

Usually, the only time overnight contact is prohibited is when the absent parent has abused a child. This is on the recommendation of SS.

Parents have parties around their children and not just the childs birthday parties. Drug use is no excuse tbh, and gone are the days that users are no longer allowed to care for their children, unless children are at risk. People have sex in front of their babies, just read countless threads on here where babies are in the bedroom in a cot, parents have sex and get pregnant.

The ex obviously has an addiction problem, guys. This probably means that dealing with him is going to be a nightmare!

Are we reading the same thread?
Where it is obvious that the ex has an addiction problem?
The op has a suspision. That is it. A suspision. She doesn't know for sure if he does take drugs. That is a major leap to go from a suspision to an addiction.

"strong suspicions of drug use, smoking, parties and sex around my child"

well you need substantial proof that any of this hppens and that it consitutes neglect or harm to your child.

many parents share room with young child and probably have sex while they sleeping.

they also have parties and smoke...hese are not illegal as such.

durg use? has to be proven it's causing harm/neglect...

but i think the dad needs to find a way to ararnge to pick him up from nursery and take to his for an overnight - makes no sense for mother tp pick up from nursery iin order to drop at dad's.

up to dad to find away around this

takin him for bottle and bed -well that is same for a lot of workin parents.

I agree with the others that have said if you have good reason to suspect he is using drugs whilst in charge of your little one then you should be stopping all contact. If you only use it as reason to stop overnights not other contact then your argument doesn't seem as credible.

Smoking, parties and sex would be almost impossible to prove and certainly not reason alone for a Court not to award overnight contact.

Friday nights sound ok, even if it does mean bottle and ed he gets Saturday daytime with his dad. Or perhaps he could have him Saturday evening til Sunday afternoon?

Does he have to go to nursery all day everyday? Perhaps if he is in nursery whilst you work some of that time could be spent with his dad? Or if his dad works perhaps he could arrange to finish early Friday's and collect him a little early from nursery on Fridays so they get the evening together?