Contact centre, supervised then what happens next? Urgent advice

[mumof289]

I was in an emotionally and physically abusive relationship with my daughters' father for 2 years. I have a non mol order on him based on the domestic abuse. He has been arrested over the assaults but no charge was taken due to lack of evidence.

He has breached the non mol order on many occasions. A warrant is out for his arrest.

My daughters are 7 months and 18 months old. Both where collateral damaged, witness and both caught caught in the cross fire over the assaults.

We have our first hearing for child contact proceedings on Wednesday. He has demanded to my solicitor that he wants things sorted in the first hearing.

Non of his family are suitable for 3rd party handover due to recent behaviour (ie. my windows going through, car window on 3 occasions - all orchestrated by the other family)

He has also made multiple suicide attempts and recently finished his treatment under the crisis team.

My children haven't seen him since April. And considering there age they haven't for a relationship with him as it's took this long for him to make an application (which was written out by his mother)

He is representing himself and he hasn't specified what contact he would like. I have a barrister and outlined that I would like a residence and a prohibted steps order if the courts see fit to grant as he has threatened to not return the children and to take them out of the country on many occasions. Which I still have the texts ad all the other threats against my life.

I firmly believe the application is so he can gain malicious access to myself to go through the children as he knows that is the way to hurt me - to be all nice to the children when he never integrated with them anyway.

I don't want to go into the all the details but my youngest was in special care he lived a moment away from the hospital and visited for a matter of a few minutes over few days. She was in hospital due to birth complications for 6 weeks.

My question is.. I know he is likely to get supervised access. But when supervised contact is over can the contact still take place at a contact centre?

No advice on what court will say, but I do know that when there is arrest warrant out it is not uncommon for the police to come to the family court when contact hearings are due to happen as there is a good chance of executing the warrant.

Thanks. Hell kick off if they do it. I'm terrified of the repercussions. I just want to know if the visit is can continue at a contact centre after supervised has finished as I know that is limited

My ex threatened to take me to court....

It will not be resolved in one hearing as there are issues already..Cafcass with look into the safety of visits...You need to co operate fully with Cafcass they have a lot of power..The woman who was in our case even told me the courts rarely go against there descsions...

If there are MH issues it is likely he will be asked for a psychiatric or pyshcologiccal assessment.

I really don't know how it works after contact centre but likely he will get bored of having to spend 2 hours with two young children..I would ensure all contact is through your solicitor

I think it is very unlikely that contact would continue in a contact centre if the court says it can be unsupervised, but I have heard of contact centres being used as third-party handovers so you don't have to see him.

Hi, just want to give you a bit of hope that it can be ok. My ex had supervised contact for over 2 years - at first it was male social workers who supervised, then a social carer , then a contact centre (due to violence against me - went to prison twice and mental health issues). From that it moved on to unsupervised but at activities, then day time unsupervised and now since January, unsupervised overnight. It is going well and ds enjoying it. What I think helped , was for 2 years we had no contact apart from hearings and this stopped his control over me, I did not speak to him, answer his texts or anything. So I would say. any handovers should not be done by you and any communication via a third party and by doing that his control over you will be reducded and you can begin to recover, good luck

as Scooby said - don't jump ahead of yourself.
you have plenty of evidence to get supervised only for now.
he will need to prove himself in lots of ways over next 12 months or two years...if during that time all goes really well, he ahs no MH episodes, he ash no dealings with police -well fantastic -everyone will be happy for It go move forward.

if it doesn't go well for whatever reason then supervised can continue.

first hearing will NOT resolve everything - they may issue interim contact order for supervised (make sure you take copies of everything with you, police reference numbers everything) to review in three or six months. as Scooby said this will be pending al reports done etc - cafcass will check with police what situation is.
it can take time to get a place in a supervised centre - but go vist your local one and talk tot hem www.naccc.org.uk make sure its one properly supervised not just volunteer run

have all the attacks assaults by his family been reported to police and you got crime ref numbers for all of them? this is very important.
is his mother a pillar of society ie might a judge think she suitable for supervising contact ?

I doubt much will be resolved in the first hearing in this case - your ex can't just stamp his feet! Plus if he has no brief he won't have a hope. Ime it's very likely that cafcass / the magistrate will order a fact finding hearing at a future date during which they will look at all your evidence as to why you will only consider supervised contact. I think your case is very strong plus you are not suggesting no contact at all and this is always favourable. It would also be favourable if you phone you local contact centre - find out what they offer and write a proposal of contact based on that/your dc availability. By proposal I mean like 'I wish to offer supervised contact every other weekend on Saturday afternoons' or whatever you want to offer bit you get the idea. Then write something like 'I only feel able to offer supervised contact at this time for the following reasons......' Then you have something to show the court to prove you have a reasoned argument based on your risk assessment of the dc/yourself and ex historical behaviour.
Contact centres usually can offer 3rd party hand overs so consider this in the future but do not offer it yet . I would stick to formal supervised contact as if you are seen to be too flexible it will be more likely he will get unsupervised access.
Good luck

With so many issues there is no way things will be sorted through one hearing. Cafcass will be asked for their recommendations after speaking to you both also.

Generally contact centres are a short term solution to build up to unsupervised contact. However, there's no way anyone could tell you how long they'd want supervised access to go on for. It entirely depends on your situation and what issues are raised.

As for third party handovers - do you have a relative yourself whom you could ask to do drop offs to your ex for you?

Thank you for all your replies. There was no progress whatsoever. It was his application for child contact. Cafcass officer was present and judge proposed that I speak with the cafcass office. I had a barrister and a member of women's aid with me. It was proposed that 8 weeks of supervised contact to be taken place at the local contact centre with a full report from cafcass in 14 weeks. 8 weeks on and then no contact? I declined the proposal as it was wrong a for a short term fix. The babies are 20 months and 8 months. I feel that the eldest in particular would be put under a lot of stress re-introducing to him and then when they just get used to him take him away? I don't feel that is fair on the children especially. Non of my family or me for that matter will not negotiate with him and his family after he violent and abusive behaviour. Not just to me. But since the non mol order has been in place significant things have happened and I believe that he is branching out to my family. The cafcass officer recommended this. She was very very pressurising towards me advising that if I decline that there will be a further hearing as to why I decline interim contact and the stress it would put me under. Again, I believe this to be a short term fix and not right for the children. I didn't completely oppose contact as I said I am open to long term negotiations in the best interest and for something to be set for there protection. I have put in for a residency order which isn't been disputed. So we have a further hearing in a month or so as to why I have declined the proposal and present evidence.

The judge proposed to the father to take a perpetrator of domestic violence course and an ranger management course, to release his records and possibly for drug tests (steroid use). He willingly accepted I believe this to be a ploy. My barrister commented that if he is just going to take it on the chin as he put across he would that he would get kicked off the course cause he just doing it because he has to be there and not take responsibility and understanding his actions and the affects on the children it may have in the long run. He also did a lot of huffing and puffing, he was losing his temper. He kept on glaring at me also.

I want to do what I can for my children I haven't out ruled no contact completely. Just for now as I don't think it is the right process for the children. I wasn't happy about the hearing as we requested my evidence from the non mol order to be presented towards yesterdays hearing which didn't happen so we just went off his application which says I have lied about the allegations and done this to get legal aid?

I have already presented my evidence and at the non mol order of the domestic abuse. Police statements, women's aid, photos or bruising, threatening abusive texts. I feel like it was very "pro-dad" and one sided.

I told the judge I truly believe that this is a malicious way for him to get at me through the children and that he isn't genuinely interested in them as his mother written out the application.

I hope for the girls sake he gives up. Even when we was in the relationship he wouldn't integrate with them, lose his temper. Kick the cot. I have told my barrister and solicitor this but the judge seemed so happy. She had a constant smile. It's a very sensitive situation and things have been played down. Especially where my children are concerned.

Thanks everyone! Give me your feedback on this please

Good luck with all of this...I understand your reluctance for short term contact...by my word of warning...I do realise you are trying to protect your kids but do be very careful with Cafcass...they are very powerful and further more are aware how powerful they are...Cafcas will only work on what they have hard evidence for so ensure you give them it all over and over again if they need it..Also be careful about digging your heels in and going against this woman...

Why is there an 8 week gap ? that part doesn't make sense...As for a contact centre..It may be short term but he will be watched and the kids would be safer there...

Good luck

refusing the supervised contact may not be good move - frankly i think it does look like you preventing contact. while you have good rason, it may go against you in the long run. if your ex is making good noises, being nice to your family etcetc -then you begin to look like th bad guy.... i felt that various judges i saw at diff hearings believed that ex's anger whatever was due to the break up situation - and missing his DC bla bla bla... so that if he got to see DC all would be better. might not be he truth, but you have to appreciate how things might be seen.... court is saying - give him some contact with DC, supervised, see how that goes, get reports.

you saying - no .

they can only propose and pay for blocks of contact - cafcass need to see what he is like around the DC. otherwise what is the point?

I think you should reconsider how it looks.... eight contact sesssions (if they would be weekly) can show if he prepared to turn up or not. if properly supervised, reports can be done how he is with dc.

ok it may be eight weeks then a gap while things are reconsidered - but with other relatives in a dc life there wil be gaps in contact like grandparents living overseas or whatever. you wouldnot deny contact with an aunt or uncle if they had not seen them fo a while or you didnt know when they would meet again. I know it is difernt and you ahve concerns, believ me i have been there. but the court wont look on it from your sole point of view.... they see dad so desperate to see his dc he has taken it to court.

you would be there at contact centre close by and if it was too distressing they could be brought out and visit cut short.

yes i looks like court in his favour - but they dont know the ins and outs - they only se ehis word versus yours. if he looks like dad just desperate to see his DC, so wound up by not seeing them he has to ge this mum to help him.... etc...

you cant get in his head, you cant say you think he is thinking xxx or yy because he may well be presenting it differently. and judge may well see it from his point of view....

remember the judge /cafcass only see things on face value. and judge barely has time to skim thru all the documents you present. you need to be very very careful how you play this.....

also if MH team have discharged him , if he seen as treating his MH issue well - then past suicide attempts wont be seen as such a major risk factor tho of course you can insist on supervised contact for a good long time. depression in a parent is not a barrier to contact per se.

"I told the judge I truly believe that this is a malicious way for him to get at me through the children"

also getting at you thru the children - it wont be seen like that - if you use a contact centre there is no need for him to have contact with you, so judge will see it as getting round that. doing everything thu third party/contact centre - well that means he cant get to you thru the children.

"and that he isn't genuinely interested in them"

judge may see it as he has gone to the trouble of court - he must be interested, else why bother ? judge will take his applciation at face value

"as his mother written out the application. "
what evidence do you have? it will have gone in in his name. plenty people use solicitors to write their applciation. this has no legs... unles s it is his mother's application - which from what you say it is not; it is his aplication in his name - regardless of who has written it. well this just looks like you posturing.

rethink and be very careful how you present it at the next hearing.
blocking supervised contact wont look good for you it could well backfire....

(i do sympathise but having gone thru various hearings with various diff judges I have seen how it can look to them - judges are keen to listen to both sides and yes to give the other parent a good chance

Hi, some advice please.
I'm new to this so please bare with me.
I separated from my husband last year due to emotional DV from ex ans his family and was referred to DVS by my health visitor. I fled Leeds where he was living with his mother and brother and moved back to London nearer to my family die tonhabing health issues.
I had to apply to court for a non molstation order. Ex took an undertaking before it went through the hearing. He then applied for CAO. To cut a long story short cafcass were involved etc. It was granted supervise contact to begin with then age 4 over night stays in leeds every fortnight. Thinking how difficult this would be for a 4 year old to do that kind of traveling every fortnight and the affects this would have at school ( tired from journey etc) I offered to try to reconcile with ex as I wouldn't be living with his family (who were the cause of our marriage breakdown). He agreed, we took son out of contact centre so ex could see his son freely as he wasn't doing well at contre. I said in court that once there is trust build in our relationship we will make overnight trips to Leeds.
Ex withdrew his CAO application and court no longer involved since January 2018.
Things are so bad between us now and he is putting so much pressure to go to Leeds before there is any trust or even a relationship built. How can he expect me to go to His family home just like that after everything has happen without any kind of security for my safety if any issues arises with his family on visits, how will I know he will support me. it's too soon we need a bit of trust first. As Things are so bad now between us I've said to ex to start having contact again at contact centre.
His been Saying he wants to just take my son for 30min- 1hr and bring him back. I don't trust that due to fears he will abduct my son as he has threatened to do so previously, so he is saying im refusing contact.
Contact centre say they need solicitor agreement for contact.
Again ex is saying I'm refusing contact and he is documenting this and will be using this in court.
He is now going to apply to court again for CAO.
His writing so much lies about me in his texts making him look like the victim and me look like I have lied to the court by not going to leeds as I said I would in court.

But I said in my statement once there is a foundation of trust and maturity built then we would make trips to Leeds.

His now saying he wants me to contact the contact centre to arrange a session but he will bring his brother to the visit. I'm worried about this as I don't trust him or his family and worry they will try to take my son when I leave the contact centre. I raised my concerns with my ex who is now again recording this as I am refusing contact and have lied to he court as I am now refusing his family to see my son. Although previously I have said to ex his family are more then welcome to visit any time. However now circumstances have changed and I fear my safety.

What do i do??