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Children start to speak out on the injustices in the family court system

27 replies

betterthanever · 23/08/2013 23:15

Once DC reach a certain age they can discuss the cases that thier parents can't. The system that so many are struggling with in the UK now has been being used in the US for longer and the DC there are coming of age there now and able to speak out.
This is an intersting web site I think it should be shared and I am certain simialr stories will be told in this country when DC come of age.
nowayoutbutone.com
The links page and the videos are very interesting. I would welcome your thoughts. Hope the link works.

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babyhammock · 24/08/2013 13:12

I've just watched the full documentary here and its just awful what that mum had to go through.

I've just had to present DS for the third contact with his father (who he has no relationship with) and where he now has to stay overnight tonight. DS was begging me not to leave him and practically hysterical. But I had to as if I don't there is an order for automatic transfer of residence to his dad.

His dad got angry and was being abusive towards me during this. He's also being investigated for rape which is ongoing and yet I'm forced to have direct contact with him.

These types of orders are going on in this country too :(

ElenorRigby · 24/08/2013 13:25

Collins? claims that her husband was an abuser never stood up to scrutiny, but for years, the Minnesota family court allowed her to have primary custody. But the children fared so poorly and Collins lied so regularly, that eventually custody was transferred to her ex-husband, where they miraculously improved.

All that was meticulously documented by seven separate Minnesota courts. Each and every claim of abuse by Collins was investigated and found to be unsubstantiated. Essentially every judge, mental health expert, guardian ad litem and witness said her claims were either unfounded or actually fabricated.

Indeed, many of her own relatives, including her own mother, stepfather, brother, sister and grandparents, testified against Holly Collins. Mental health professionals diagnosed her as ill.

In December of 1992, Minnesota Family Court Judge Michael J. Davis found ?the evidence is overwhelming that the children are at great physical and emotional risk if the children remained in Holly Collins? care? and awarded custody of the then-9 and 7-year-old children to Mark Collins.

So Collins abducted the children to Holland where she was able to convince a gullible government that what seven U.S. state courts had found to be untrue, was true. That was before the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction had come into being, so the children?s father had no recourse.

It should come as no surprise that, once abroad, Holly Collins apparently continued her campaign of parental alienation. Entirely cut off from their father, the campaign worked. It?s in the nature of parental alienation that, when one parent has exclusive control over the kids, they will try to please that parent. So if it becomes clear that Dad is persona non grata to the mother, he?ll become that to the kids as well. So Holly Collins? children, now grown, are happy to describe their father as the evil abuser their mother always said ? and no court has ever found ? he was.

Link

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 24/08/2013 14:49

This website gives more details apparently from the children involved - the 1st story listed appears to be the daughter of Holly Collins, but seems to be signed by her brother too.

americanchildrenunderground.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1This seems to be the daughter's blog, which contains some response to the link where ElenorRigby's extract has come from.

Can't find anything that links to the father's side, in response to what the (now adult) children have said.

betterthanever · 24/08/2013 20:47

Good link tension it amazes me how peole think that a parent can get a child to fabricate so much, so detailed, time after time - trying to get them to brush thier teeth can be a challenge most days!
babyhammock I am astounded at what has happened to you today and pray to god that things improve. Record what you can at handovers, I am sure you will be gathering all the evidence you have - I hope your DS is ok. DC grow up and more will speak out in this country too.

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babyhammock · 24/08/2013 21:08

Better I recorded the whole thing and its heart rending to listen to :(. I'm appealing the order and my victim support person thinks my MP is onboard with it x

HerrenaHarridan · 24/08/2013 21:15

Oh dear god baby hammock, that's awful! How old is your ds? How often are they saying you have to put him through this?

Poor mite

betterthanever · 24/08/2013 21:16

So glad you have the recording, sounds very promising with your MP -can you imagaine if that recording was show on national TV what the reaction would be! keep it forever. Keep strong. My heart goes out to you.

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babyhammock · 24/08/2013 21:39

Herrena the next one is on thursday for 2 nights :(. DS was 5 last week
Better I'm taking the recording to the court of appeal and I'll play it there
x

betterthanever · 24/08/2013 22:22

You may well have more to take with you Sad

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IneedAsockamnesty · 25/08/2013 00:15

Babyhammock,

Before you rely on the tape have it completely and exactly transcribed first. Where your dc is screaming crying ect actually give a description of the noises.

Courts get very funny about admitting covert recordings but transcripts are allowed you dont even have to say thats what they are and its often better not to,but there is nothing wrong with saying if the validity of the transcript is questioned by the other party you can evidence it.

IneedAsockamnesty · 25/08/2013 00:30

elenor I'm curious,why did you c&p that link?

babyhammock · 25/08/2013 09:21

Thanks sock that makes sense. I'll do that x

Better there's one more contact before the oral appeal hearing :( x

betterthanever · 25/08/2013 19:08

Thanks for that advice sock I may be in a similar position soon. Good luck babyhammock it should not take luck though, it should take the law to put things right Sad

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babyhammock · 25/08/2013 20:53

I picked him up today and DS said that his dad had given him nothing to eat (no tea and no brekfast even) and that all he'd had to eat was the chocolate and hula hoops that I'd put in his overnight bag. He also said that his dad wouldn't call him by his name (ongoing issue that the court also refuses to acknowledge is a problem)..
I'm just so relieved to have him back :(

IneedAsockamnesty · 25/08/2013 21:02

What does dad call him?

babyhammock · 25/08/2013 21:12

A completely different name. In court he said he would call DS the name he prefers whether DS liked it or not... massively child focused as ever Confused

babyhammock · 25/08/2013 21:15

He told DS that his name is not XXX and that it is YYY as that is what dad likes better.. such a arsehole

Lionessnurturingcubs · 25/08/2013 22:48

Better than ever - thanks for posting the link. It is quite shocking the lengths this Poor woman had to go to to protect her children.

Elenor - a tenuous link from Fathers for Families doesn't convince anyone. How could a "mentally ill" woman have the presence of mind to organise the abduction of her own children, travel halfway across the world and seek asylum in a foreign country? Interesting that when Holly Collins returned to the US in 2008 she was not met by police or arrested, but all charges dropped.

Baby - so sorry you are having to endure this. Does this help - from the UN Rights of the Child:

Article 7 (Registration, name, nationality, care): All children have the right to a legally registered name, officially recognised by the government. Children have the right to a nationality (to belong to a country). Children also have the right to know and, as far as possible, to be cared for by their parents.
Article 8 (Preservation of identity): Children have the right to an identity ? an official record of who they are. Governments should respect children?s right to a name, a nationality and family ties.

You are so right that we have to stop it from happening here. The phrase "Court Appointed Child Abuse" is very apt here as well as the US.

IneedAsockamnesty · 25/08/2013 23:40

Did the court not pick up on that?

I'm assuming we are talking first name not surname?

Re the food thing,forgive my for suggesting this but is it possible that dad is manipulating ds someway to make him repeat stuff like that to you?

End result being he provides evidence that he is feeding him or is doing xyz next time your in court to make it look like your a bat shit crazy liar?

I've actually seen this one done a few times and it does work very well.

babyhammock · 26/08/2013 07:30

Thanks so much Lioness... its obvious really isn't it, especially at that age when their name is so linked with their identity.

Even the guardian's barrister suggested to the court that there should be a provision in the order that his dad has to use DS's name (first name) but nothing was added at all. But to be fair it's very hard to police. If you have a parent with a fundamental view that the only person who has any rights is himself, that is extremely hard to deal with as it will effect every way that they deal with the child :(. I can't emphasise enough how much the court has disregarded all this stuff.. Anything that suggests contact should be supervised has been completely ignored.

He's still a stranger to DS and DS has told me he can't challenge his dad about anything as he's too scared to, so I completely believe DS that his dad is doing this. It simply wouldn't occur to him that DS needs feeding or moreover that he could be bothered to do it... it's not un-typical of him at all. I know he hasn't got him anything either on the two previous day visits.

I said to DS 'why didn't you tell dad you were hungry' and he he replied that he 'was too worried to' :(.

IneedAsockamnesty · 26/08/2013 09:51

Please tell me you are making exact notes of this?

babyhammock · 26/08/2013 10:14

I am. Next contact is Thursday for 2 nights

IneedAsockamnesty · 26/08/2013 10:37

Have you got a witness with you for handover like normal?

If so clearly and within her hearing actually state to him that ds requires feeding at meal times and that he is to little to manage food preparation himself so you (meaning dad) need to do it and meal provision is deamed to be his responsibility during contact.

It will prevent him Doing the ohhhh I didn't know and she should have sent food (weird I know but I've heard that one loads as well).

Quite awhile ago you and I talked about finding a children's group. You need to do this ASAP its your only way of being able to deal with stuff like this try these people

www.splitz.org/

Tell ds he can talk about anything to them and the second he discloses daddy not feeding him and bang you've got your child protection issue report for the court.

babyhammock · 26/08/2013 10:55

I have for the next one, and yes I will try and organise that wrt splitz.

I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with this. In theory I should be able to go straight back to the guardian with these concerns but I'm very aware that I could well be accused of trying to prevent contact.

I will write everything down and that, with the transcript (which very much backs up DS's fear), will hopefully count for something when I have the appeal hearing.

IneedAsockamnesty · 26/08/2013 11:58

You will be accused of it using that route,you know she's pre assumed.

You have to plan ahead.

Out of interest and FYI did you know the guardians in your area all come into regular contact with many of the child support services and if a cp referral is made by one of them as a direct result of a child's disclosure and they have a G involved who hasn't taken a concern seriously the shit hits the fan for the G

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