Christmas arrangements - already!

[giesabosie]

Ex has announced he wants the kids for Christmas. I'm in tears at the thought and I said no (but then he always announces these things without any preparation and I immediately go on the defensive).

Background is that I've had the kids for the past 4 years for Christmas. This is partly because my family don't live nearby and because my dad was ill with cancer so I wanted the kids to spend as much time with their grandad as possible. I suppose ex feels it's his turn. Part of me thinks he probably has a point but part of me thinks that I do 90% of the hard graft so why should I miss out on one of the best bits of the year. Also, he left me (for OW) so deep down when he says he misses the kids I don't have much sympathy because I think he brought it on himself. I didn't get a choice and I deeply resent having to be without my kids for Christmas due to his choices.

Anyway, so when I get past all that I try to think about what the kids would like. Last year my DD (now 8) did have a wobble about not seeing daddy on Christmas Day. I'm sure he put her up to it to a certain extent but it made me think we were going to have to come to a better arrangement for this year.

I guess it would be good to know what others do to give me some ideas for negotiation. What do you think about asking my DD what she'd like to do or do you think that might be a bit much for her?

Oh, and sorry for the ranty bit at the start. I know I have to share for the sake of the kids and once I've calmed down I manage to grit my teeth and sort it out as best I can. Co-parenting is difficult though and having just about got through the summer hols I didn't want to be discussing Christmas until at least September.

I asked my lawyer what a court would think reasonable and both parents can insist on seeing a child on important days like child's birthdays and Christmas. My ex (like yours, an affair) wants everything on a planner for the whole year. Now I wont commit totally to that but he gets really arsey if I want changes half way through the year. We alternate for Christmas and New year which is quite nice - I get a whole week off. I went to Miami year before last :). Only problem here is that I only get that time off over school holidays which is a jolly pain.

Your ex is not being unreasonable wanting to see his DC at Christmas and if they want to see him and his family at that time then compromise from you will be necessary. I would have thought if your dad was ill with cancer for 4 years (??), seeing DC at Christmas time would not be your dad's priority.

My ex this year has decided to be spiteful on DC birthday and so DC will be away on actual birthday and both weekends either side. I have said this is unreasonable and have been told that I can drive 350 mile round trip to see DC. I have already spoke to DC and explained why I wont see him on his birthday and have already made other plans.

You can get a court order which sets out contact schedule if both parents don't agree, but generally most lawyers advise agreeing between selves if at all possible.

DD's dad always comes round on Christmas day morning to watch DD open her presents.

It works for us (even though he left me for someone else, we've always managed to keep things amicable.)

I hope you manage to sort something out that you are comfortable with.

See, I knew I'd get sensible advice here.

NatashaBee - yes, that's what I thought about my DD. Too much pressure having to choose between us. My ex likes to ask her opinion but I feel she's too young yet and it needs to be done very carefully.

Veryconfused - that's really crap about the birthday. It's very unfair on your DC. My dad had prostate cancer and survived for 5 years after he was diagnosed. He wasn't really unwell until near the end and trying to fit as much family time in as possible became a real priority. You're right I will need to compromise. I know this deep down. Unfortunately friends and family just get upset on my behalf which doesn't help when I need to discuss such issues and I've got my recently widowed mum to consider now too. I find it interesting that your ex wants everything planned out so far in advance. Mine seems to be heading that way since I set up a google calendar for the kids (as I got fed up with him not paying attention when we discussed arrangements).

I'm in the same boat as you Glesa, my ex announced about 2wks ago he will be taking ds to stay with his family in another country for xmas. I'm devastated, not sure how I will get through xmas without having my child there. But ds has a right to see the other side of his family and get to know them. I also had him for xmas last year so I'm going to have to suck it up I reckon.
How far away does your ex live? Is it possible to share xmas?

This year I will have DC for Christmas eve, Christmas day. Ex will have them Christmas day eve and Boxing Day. I guess next year we will swap. The only thing I can think of that will make it tolerable when I don't have the boys for Christmas morning is to volunteer at a local homeless place, where they will be supplying Christmas lunch for people who otherwise won't have one. I figured that it will keep me bloody grateful for what I DO have instead of moping around being miserable about what I don't have.

FWIW I feel exactly the same as you about my cheating ex. He made his bed and he can lie in it with OW without his kids next door. It's normal to feel like that. But just because I feel it, doesn't mean I can act on it all the time, at some point I'll have to compromise because it's in the boys best interests. Even though I'd rather poke their dad in the eye with a hot poker say no.

Whilst it is normal to feel he has made his bed, your DC did not. So yes it would be fair to alternate. It does sound as though he has been fairly sensitive whilst your Dad was alive though.
I went old turkey and choose not to have DD the very risk year, ExH tried to create so guilt trip about how I needed to see her on Christmas Day, but I stuck to my guns that I didn't as that actually wasn't out Christmas we had the whole day presents roast etc on New Years Day with family and I had saved their presents till then too.

I am the one who 'does' Christmas so I felt it was in d s interest to have every year to make sure they had the Xmas they were used to iyswim
I invited ex fisrt to come in morning for present opening and then just come for Xmas lunch
This worked on so many levels for me as we focused on the dcs and made them happy and I had the bonus of ex having to behave politely to me in my home haha
You could do the same give a choice of coming early on the morning

More good suggestions - thanks. My sympathies to everyone who is in the same boat. I'm glad I've posted. It really helps to share experiences.

Choco - you've hit the nail on the head with regard to how I feel. I also like the idea of volunteering. It would create some good out of the crap and, yes, remind me that my life could be much worse which I always think is a good thing. I also think it would help my DD not worry about me if she knew I was busy and not on my own.

I'm not sure I could put up with him on Christmas Day so I guess I have to decide between a Christmas/boxing day arrangement or do as Lonecat suggests and go all out for a 2nd Christmas.

I had both DC last year so know I have no chance this year, so will offer to do the 12.5 hr shift at work Christmas day so someone else can spend it with their family. It is proper wanky tho!!

I'm familiar with this situation from the child's perspective as my parents went through a very acrimonious divorce when I was 11. We did alternate years but there was always confusion about exactly how much time we were spending with each parent over the Christmas break. They both ended up feeling hard done by and complaining to my brother and I about it. When we were a bit older we were expected to liaise between them over arrangements. It was a nightmare and totally ruined Christmas for me.
So my advice would be to sort out arrangements directly with your ex and ensure that your DCs know you are fine about it ( even if you are inwardly spitting nails). It's tough and I feel for you, but childhood Christmasses are so precious it's worth it just to let them have that for a few more years.

I've already had this argument discussion with ExH this year. He left us 12 months ago to be with OW, to make matters worse he left me and DC living on France and he was in UK. I didn't get a choice he invited himself last Christmas, it was hell, he spent all his time on his iPad slagging me off to OW while I cooked him dinner. He decided that he wanted them this year. I've said no but offered that he could take them from Christmas afternoon and keep them till New Year. He's opted to have them fly over to the UK on the 27th, whether this happens or not I don't know as he's already told the DCs he won't be seeing them again this year because he has no holiday left.

Next year he will have to see them and I'm saving for a nice holiday for me. I've been invited to stay with friends and family but don't really want to be with other people's DCs when I can't see my own. But next year is a long way away and we'll see how much contact he has with them between now and then.

We have the kids one Xmas on one off from 24-26 then the other has them NY. The year we don't have them we get them on the 26 and open presents on the 27 so you have the same anticipation the night before. It works for us and their mum does the same :)

My ex will have no choice this year as the kids are voting with their feet and want to stay at home on Christmas day. For the last 2 years, he chose OW over seeing them at all on Christmas day. First year he didn't see them at all until New Year despite me suggesting that he picked them up after lunch. He had them on 27th last year (his choice) failed to give them any presents, made them waffles and fish fingers for 'Christmas Dinner' and spent most of the day arguing with OW because they were both 'so tired' after driving hundreds of miles to spend Xmas with her family. I am hoping that he doesn't even have the nerve to suggest that they go to him on Christmas day
Kids were so upset at his shitty attempts last year and to be honest it suits me as even when we were together, he was a miserable shit on Christmas day and I had to creep around keeping the kids quiet until HE woke up. Same with birthdays.

Reading these replies I guess I'm very lucky.

Me and ex split up when DS was 18 months. I have older children from my marriage.

Ex-P is very civil and says DS should be in his own house with his brother and sisters (I now also have a 2 yr old DD) on Christmas Day so I get him all day. His dad phones him to find out what presents he got then he collects DS on Boxing Day morning and brings him home on the 27th.

The same goes for his birthday. It is spent here with me but I always invite ex (plus his new partner and their 3 year old) over for tea and birthday cake.

FWIW exes 3 yr old us my DS's sister too therefore i see my sons step mum as part of my family and we get on well so they will always be part of the day. (Step mum has an 11 yr old son and he gets an invite too. Am I too liberal??)

Sorry for going OT with birthday talk.

Just to add, although me and step mum get on well, she still has ex on a tight leash when he is visiting DS alone.

He isn't 'allowed' to spend the time in my home, he has to take DS out, even if its just McDonalds.

My 2 yr old adores my ex so he has taken her out too on the odd occasion but that also has to be hush hush, so I guess she must see me still as a threat - even though I'd not have ex back in a lucky bag!!!

Not me but my dn spends xmas eve with one dp until 4 then other has him until 4 xmas day then switch again. He loves it as its a constant round of presents and fun xmas things and he sees them both equally. he is 7 now and has said to me he likes that he gets to see them both.

Another one who alternates Christmas and New Year here. It will be the third year this year and it's my turn. I struggled a bit last year as dd rang from abroad and ended up in floods of tears as she wanted to be at home with us. I do wonder whether this arrangement is sustainable if she doesn't want to go next year. I now have a ds and I think she will find it strange spending christmas apart from him. In theory I accept she should experience christmas with both parents - sharing the day is not logistically feasible, but I wonder sometimes if the split arrangement is more so the parents feel they get their share, rather than what the child actually wants.

My current musings are in part due to dd's step mum ringing me during contact last week to say she was worried about dd as she seemed sad and not enjoying herself. She's been happy as larry since she's been home so I can only conclude she was a bit homesick. It was a two week contact rather than a week.

No answers or advice I'm afraid OP. Everyone's situation is unique and I think there aren't really any right answers, just what seems to work, until it doesn't!

I've never spent Xmas away from my DD. I've offered to share Xmas with my ex, he did the 1st Xmas after we split then chose the subsequent years to spend it with his g/f and her family. Last Xmas, we spent Xmas eve/morning at my ex's and then went our separate ways for dinner. It's never been something that we discussed, it's just a 'given' that DD spends Xmas with me, and occasionally with her dad too if we can agree on arrangements.

I do sometimes wonder what it would be like to have the alternate Xmas etc. but it's never been 'on the table' so not something I need worry about for now. If DD asked to spend Xmas with her dad instead, I'd do it, but she's never asked, and ex has never suggested it. I think there are a few reasons for that, the main one being I really go to town for DD in making it special, so I think ex would struggle to replicate that and he doesn't want DD to miss out, and DD enjoys all that and knows she doesn't get it at her dads.

If I was pushed to state my view I think it would be along the lines of DD should be allowed to have Xmas at her home, and share it with both of us if that was possible, rather than the split set up.

I also alternate and it works well. Whoever has Xmas doesn't do New Year's Eve.

It means every second year we have a nice holiday over Xmas with the dcs and then one without!