A separated Dad needs a little advice...

[Andy020480]

Brief Back Story: My partner and i decided that we should split up and, reasonably amicably, we proceeded to do so. Shortly before i moved out of our home, we did the obvious, agreed afterwards that it wasn't sensible to have done it and continued with the separation.
Two months later, i was contacted to have a chat and informed i was to be aa father from that last night together. (initially i was told that contraception had no longer been taken for a few months, now informed it must be the 0.01% chance and that she was still on the pill. :-\ )
I was immediately supportive and started buying equipment etc and a monthly amount more than the CSA would decree, even before my son was born.
Despite previous discussions about being at the hospital for the birth and how important it was to me to be at least in the same vicinity, i found out about my sons birth by text message at 4am "baby born, 6.15lbs" after a 24 hour labour.
I have since been as supported as possible but have had to be very patient with his mother since there have been abusive texts to my lovely parents, accusations of non-payment of support money (i have not missed one payment and also pay for all Nappies and Milk formula (he was not breastfed) on top, as well as anything else he might need. ) and various issues around contact. (in the first few weeks, i was only allowed to see my son in a cafe at a bowling alley for 1 hour, rather than at his home with his mother. ).

All of this is fairly standard and nothing that has been majorly upsetting, just a little tricky but i am now at the point where i would very much like to see my son for slightly longer(at 3 months, the mother chose to move 50mins drive away so i see my son every Saturday for 6 hours now but with nearly 3.5hours driving involved too :-( ) for both convenience and for his relationship to me to hopefully build (and i do feel like i am going to start missing out on a lot of his most fun developments) .

The mother however is now insistent that it is BAD for my son to stay overnight with me until he is a lot older. I have looked for more concrete information on this but i thought this would be a good place to start :-)

Two key questions: Is it bad for a child to stay overnight away from mum for one night, twice monthly, at 8 & 1/2 months?

Is there any advice on how i should approach the situation? I have been as patient and calm as i can be but maybe i should start being a little bit more gently insistent? Im not sure :-\

Sorry for the long post but i would love some feedback from some mums! :-)

Hi OP, there is a lot of conflicting advice about all things baby and child as you know. I have always held the belief that every child is different and their needs and what affects them as an individual is the most important thing.
I would not say it is `bad' for a child to have an overnight somewhere other than the mothers at that age, does your ex not let them sleep at her parents overnight at all?
I know it must be hard for any parent to be parted from thier child at any age but I am sure that as time goes on your exp may be glad of the rest as being a lone parent is hard. Is your accomodation ok? has your exp seen it? would you have everything you need there for your DS?
Why do you think your exp has acted as they have in the past?

I think most mums let the baby stay at grandparent overnight by 8.5 months tbh but of course you have the catch 22 can't build a relationship without seeing him, not allowed to see him to build a relationship.
Start documenting and see a solicitor

The particular circumstances are relevant. It may take longer for a child to establish attachment if they aren't living with someone who is involved in all aspects of their care and some children may struggle with overnights until they two or three years of age.

Thanks!
In answer to betterthanever's questions first:
My accommodation is nice but my exp won't come to it.
I have everything needed and more! Can't stop buying stuff for him, even if its not currently being used.
Since splitting, my exp has decided that I am somehow awful despite nothing ever happening to fuel this. Unfortunately she does have an anxiety disorder which fuels this.

And in response to you others :
Catch 22 indeed. It is remarkably frustrating and I've never known a more unpleasant feeling than handing him back, despite my exp being a fabulous mother, as far as I am concerned. Wanting to be as much of a good dad as possible but not being allowed to be is terribly depressing at times.

And, STIDW, I totally agree. It is only for an individual child taken as who they are and their particular peccadilloes and needs that you can judge what is the right time. I am lucky; my ds has a lovely personality, sleeps well, eats well, has settled to a routine well and is almost constantly cheerful and confident. He seems genuinely pleased to see me, even though he is so young, and doesn't seem at all concerned by being with me, or returning to his mum. I would be very comfortable and happy for him to stay over with my exp, if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak.

Thanks again. :-)

I think others have posted good ideas. I have no personal experience so am not going to be terribly helpful. However, I think you are doing what you can to build a relationship... Don't lose heart, it will all get less anxious for your exp as child gets older, and you will be able to do more.
I have a friend who was in a remarkably similar situation who now has a fabulous relationship with his 6 yrold. His exp did, however allow him to visit in her house from a young age, although she did not allow sole charge for ages.

Once children can talk and walk it feels easier to let them go elsewhere... Babies are so vulnerable because they can't say 'nana forgot to feed us' or 'I couldn't sleep because I lost my dummy so I'm really grumpy'. Not that 2 yr olds have a brilliant reputation for knowing when they are tired or anything! But at least you can sk them questions.

Good luck, and it sounds like some mediation might help you get contact arrangements firmed up, but that doesn't guarantee anything.

andy you sound like everything is set up for your DD to have a good relationship with you which will just keep getting better and better. I think your post is really nice esp. where you say your exp is a good mother. I really hope things work out for all of you.

It appears that the split may not have been seen as so mutual and amicable by your exP, as there have since been communication issues. Perhaps you could find a way to get to the bottom of that without things getting too heated?
If you can resolve some negativity between you she may find it easier to let go for a night. It's personal and individual as you know. I would of have found it hard initially. Demonstrating that you are responsible and understand the needs of your child day and night should help reassure her.

Ok speaking as a Dad in a comparable situation to yourself, the best bit of insight I can give you is this: Try your best to compartmentalize all the different facets of the situation. I can completely empathize how relations with her might be strained, but remember that for at least awhile she herself is feeling incredibly vulnerable at the moment this is before you throw in a potential anxiety disorder into the equation.

I'm deliberately ignoring what the rights and wrong of the situation may be, because you sound like a really nice chap and to be honest the why's and wherefore's of why the split happened isn't really relevant anymore. By all means keep logs and records of what goes on, try and keep important communication in written form rather than verbal just in case things do get hairy you can present your side clearly and transparently.

I'd say the win condition here is your little un' grows up knowing two parents that love them unconditionally. Any early years hiccups they won't remember so you have time to get to a reasonable relationship with your ex, and try and present that you wish to co-parent, and not usurp or control. Which reminds me as if you are on a good footing with Mum you can communicate relevent information between visits. Like where they are in their sleep cycle, how much they have had to drink etc.

My short term advice is try and put your ex's mind at rest, and I gather you want overnight's to start as soon as possible as your only getting contact once a week, but might it be possible to take a few holiday days at work to get some more time during the week with your little one? Anyway I hope it all pans out, channel or your energy into the time you do get to spend together, as it is focusing on that positive that allows me to put the elements of the situation that are not to my liking in perspective and easier to deal with.

Dervel I wish you were my exp. So well put.

Andy I am very sad to hear your story. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be to be away from your child. I endorse everything that Dervel says around putting the past aside and focussing on what is best for you DS. There is a brilliant book called 'Raising Boys' which discusses the vital role that fathers play and has a section on separated families. It might be a good starting point for both you and your exp to read, hopefully agree how you wil co-parent based on DS's need to have you play a central role. I wish you all lots of luck moving forwards.

I think you need to get legal advice, there is no reason why you shouldn't spend more time with your baby. I don't think she is being a very good mother as you suggest, if she is making it so difficult for you to see your baby.

I think you should also consider the longer term and decide how much time you will want to spend with your child when he is older - if you want 50/50 then you have to be realistic about what that would mean for your child and you. Once they start school everything changes and it won't be as straightforward to have more care.

So- do seek legal advice, but be careful what you wish for in terms of access as you may get it. You will need to be very prepared to take on the responsibilities of this child for the long haul, not just while he's a baby.

If you are really serious about it you should move closer to her - that will make it easier for all of you.

My husband left me when I was 3 months pregnant and like you wanted to have a relationship with the baby (our second son). I must say I spent most of the pregnancy absolutely dreading him suddenly "demanding" to take my baby out for visits as soon as he was born or generally fighting about access. Life with a young baby for a mother is such a heady vulnerable situation, I think your mothering instinct is to protect your child and not let it out of your sight, so to let your baby be with someone that you no longer chose to spend time with is very very difficult. You will have to tread carefully.

I am very glad that in the end my husband did not go down the lawyer/fight for access route, but was patient and negotiated reasonably about access, he takes him out at weekends and some evenings but has still not had him overnight yet and he is now 1.5 years old. I offered to let him have him over night from when he was about 1 year old. Before that it was obvious that he really would be distressed away from his mum (I cant imagine his dad would be able to get him to sleep, he is great to play with, but is not a part of his daily routines) and my husband realised this too. The golden rule is, you must do what's best for the child, and staying with a "semi-stranger" or having an unpredictable routine would be very hard for an 8 month old - thats my opinion, but obviously the best judge of what's right for your child is the person who spends most time with him, which in this case is his mother.

Incidentally my oldest DS is 5 now, and the role his dad plays in his life is getting bigger and bigger the older he gets. You might feel a bit left out now, but there is a lot of parenting left to do - THINK LONGTERM - keep the channels of communication open and friendly with your ex, and try and build a "new" relationship between you (which is about parenting) because if you dont you will have many tough years ahead of you, and your childrens own view of the world (and their relationships) will be affected by how they see you and your ex behave.

My youngest DS has a great relationship with his dad and it hasn't been affected at all by the fact that he doesnt go to sleep at night with him.

I would say try and avoid legal stuff just yet. Speaking from experience it made things so much worse than before in my family.
I have a 7 month old baby. She is bf so no expectation of overnight contact just now (dammit!). She spends as much time as possible with her dad (who I had a v v v difficult split from) but in short chunks. I realise this is hard with distance but I'm trying to describe an amicable contact plan for a baby that small. He has dd for a couple of hours a few times a week, I express and he tries to have her longer but she gets v unhappy. This is his testimony, not me claiming she's unhappy - I am glad of the break! I worry about the bonding quite a bit and ideally she would see him every day but this would be disruptive and confusing for our older child plus we all have lives to lead.

I would be panicked if exh was pushing for overnights with dd2. I'd be quite pleased if she could go 6 hours with him! What I'm saying is, for a baby that young your contact is ok for now. Overnights would be desirable for all in the future of course but depending on the situation courts often don't grant them until 2 plus. The points about the stuff you've bought....I'm getting a hint of wanting to play being daddy.,,.which is natural and expected but think any the needs of your ds which are attachment to mum plus getting to know dad. Fwiw your situation could be a lot worse. Good luck

I understand your keenness to spend more time with your son, Andy, and it bodes well for the future. :) But 8 months is still very young to be thinking about overnight stays. If you think about it, most children don't have a night away from their mums til they are much older - my DS1 was almost 5yo, tho I'd have been happy from about 3yo, if it had been an option. My DS2 was 2, but he spent 8 hours a day with his dad, 4 days a week. Many children whose parents stay together don't have a night away from home til they start sleepovers!

As Dervel and others say, think long-term: these early months will seem only a distant, fairly irrelevant memory in a few years time, providing you keep up contact. Then when he's 15, he'll probably want to move in with you and his mum will be packing his bags!

As Frax says, things change when a child starts to be able to talk. Before that, most mothers will want to keep their babies close, especially at night. It's not anxiety, it's just instinct.

A health visitor once told me that children are happy if their mums are happy. That is almost universally true (with rare exceptions when a dad or someone else is a child's primary carer) - children, and especially babies, are very sensitive to their mothers' emotions. As a supportive father, you will want your son to be as happy and healthy as possible - and that means not pushing for things that will make his mum unhappy and stressed.

You clearly care, Andy: you want the best for him and you are taking advice! I reckon your son is a lucky boy!