Can't decide how many nights /days with Dad is best for children

[Spanglish31]

Hi everyone, I'm new to Mumsnet and this is my first post. I live in Spain, have been here for many years and have 3 children; a daughter who'll be 10 next month and 2 sons of 8 and 4.5. My husband and I have been attending mediation for a while now trying to sort out our divorce, which quite frankly isn't going too well. I went from working full time to part time when our first child was born and dh has a very demanding job. That said, he is a fantastic Dad and when he's home, is completely hands on.
He ( and all his very large family) were shocked/furious when they discovered that I didn't want joint custody, I want sole custody. I firmly believe that with young children it's not the best for their emotional stability. I don't however rule it out in the future. He's very persuasive and to be honest I feel quite alone and scared about the future, even though I'm a very strong person. Feelings of guilt about the children coupled with the cold shoulder from his family have made me make decisions which Im afraid I may regret. By law he will have every other weekend and half of all holidays.

Dh wanted 50/50 time with the children. Finally, This is what I've agreed to: in a fortnight he will have them Wed-Monday, 5 nights in a fortnight and me the other 9, with him having the Wednesday from 1-8pm with them of my week, as well as other evenings he and I agree on if our relationship is good enough.I haven't signed anything yet and here's the problem. Maybe I'm panicking but suddenly it seems like I'm giving him too many nights(he refused to be a "visiting Dad", saying he wanted to live with them.)I'm worried it will start like this and then I'll concede to more days and the children will eventually end up like parcels in what is effectively a 50/50 setup. I have lots of good friends here but no family now really except my children and I'm feeling horribly clingy like I need my babies close to me! He has an enormous network of family who'll rally round him and help out with everything, especially when He has work commitments.
Are these doubts and last minute insecurities normal? I'm terrified of signing to something I've never even tried and then won't be able to get out of.
Thanks so much for reading this novel!

I imagine it is very hard to think of your children not living with you full time, but, and I will say this as gently as possible, you don't 'get' to have the ultimate say on anything. You are both equal parents and he has every right to say the same thing to you.

Sometimes 50/50 doesn't always work out, so you may find later down the line that the contact changes. But why shouldn't the children get to live with their dad as well? I'm afraid you aren't top parent and having the attitude of 'giving him time' and 'allowing this and that' etc certainly won't help the situation.

I know it's perfectly normal to be worried - they are precious to you and you want to make sure they are happy, but then again so does he. The earlier, having the correct outlook on these situations as equal parents both playing different but equal roles in the children's lives, the better. Said from bitter experience!!

Forget 50/50. Forget `normal contact'.

What is best for your children? They all have different needs, wishes, etc. and as long as they are met that is all that matters. Their best interests is paramount.

Parenting is a shared responsibility. It's not helpful thinking in terms of one parent as the main carer' or some such and the others as a visiting' parent. As such it's possibly not helpful talking about `giving him' nights - you're both the childrens' parents...it's something to work between you.

I appreciate you believe that one main home' offers them stability - but there is research to both prove' and `disprove' this is the case. Truth be told - the best thing children of separated parents can have is seeing their mum and dad working together for their benefit and not fighting - it helps them seeing men and women as allies rather than adversaries.

Don't worry about `signing something'. A court order is the only thing that is legally binding (and quite honestly they often mean very little too) when it comes to arrangements for the children. That said you should do all you can to avoid court because it is a truly wretched experience - as bad as you may feel it is likely court will make you (and your ex!) feel a whole lot worse as well as pouring your collective money into a solicitor's pockets rather than being spent on your children.

When it comes to mediation (keep trying for the above reasons!) work out what you'd like and what you can live with - compromise where you can but expect a few compromises from him too.

It is the most heart breaking situation you're ever likely to encounter - and ironically the most important one. It can work between you and your ex if you try hard enough. Always remember that their best interests come first and be guided by that principle alone.

BTW - there is no such thing as sole custody' (the term went out in the UK in 1989 with the advent of the Children Act). Even if you mean sole residence' it has no actual bearing on how the children split their time with you and their dad.

He is a fantastic hands on dad with a big family supporting him. So why should he not have fifty fifty ?
If you want them to live on one house and have a visiting parent then that could equal,y be you right ?

Why should he not have sole residence and you do the visiting thing?

You don't mention any reason why it should not be fifty fifty.
It would be fairer to both and to the kids to have as much equal time as is feasible.

Exactly what cestlavie says. ^

Unfortunately this is one of the consequences of divorce - you lose out on time with your kids. Just as you don't want to be without your children, neither does their father. 50/50 is fair.

And you should be grateful that your children have two loving, involved parents.

I think the compromise you've struck sounds reasonable. I share your view that it's often easier (certainly at first) for the kids to have one main home - but that doesn't mean not spending substantial amounts of time in their other home and keeping up a good relation with their dad. If you were to move to 50-50 in the future that wouldn't mean they were "parcels" though.

But with 3 kids - what you might want to think about would be structuring things so that you each get some one to one time with each of them. It's a bit crazy spending half your week missing them all, and the other half struggling to cope with the needs of 3 kids on your own. For instance if you gave them each one night a week extra one to one with their dad, say, that would give him 3 more "child" nights a week, without seeing you lose any time being a mum with more time to focus on the other two. You could fit it in around any clubs/activiteis that any of them like to do that one of you likes to take them to, or whatever fits with their lifestyles.

Thanks a lot to everyone who has responded to my message, I really appreciate hearing other points of view. It helps to put things into perspective when reason is clouded by sadness. Unfortunately I find myself using percentages etc because its what the mediator does all the time, talking as if our children were possessions to give/concede/bargain over which is unpleasant. I'm particularly anxious because we're breaking the bad news to them this Sunday : (
And thanks also for updating my terminology........so many years outside of the UK means my vocabulary knowledge on certain subjects is practically prehistoric.

I would be giving joint custody. As much as you don't want it its not really your choice. You don't own your children or have any more responsibility for them. They are both of your children and both of you should get 50% if you want

Just one question. Do people still agree with joint custody even one of the parent's job would make it humanly impossible for them to fulfil it? And when that parent couldn't do school runs etc they sent relatives and child minders.....does the end always justify the means?

You can have joint residence (custory) without it needing to be a 50-50 split of time. They're two separate issues.

I'm surprised you've had such strong support for 50-50 on this thread. The usual accepted wisdom is that you should stick largely to whatever pattern of care in the week that was in place before you split up. If that was you caring for the DCs and doing all the school runs whilst your DH worked long hours, then that is what you should largely stick to. Then split the weekends more evenly.

Thanks, that's been my reasoning all along because this is our case. It would seem pretty strange to me to change their routines to something completely different.

Btw Purple roses I think your advice about one to one time, and your explanation of what our setup will be like, is perfect. I hope we'll be able to achieve this in the future.

I'm also surprised by the support for 50/50 residency when you have so clearly been their main carer. shared residency doesn't mean equally shared time it means that children have a home with both parents (this could even be spending one weekend with dad or mum per month). 50/50 time can be very disruptive to children's routines and could feel that they are passed between homes without a real base. Not all children like this and not very good for young children. Its quite rare to get sole residency now, especially if you've been married to the father and or he has parental responsibility.

the discusisons over practicalities over time spend in each house are very valid and may take into account continuity of current arrangements stability etcetc...

but it is wrong i think to say "dad is agreat hands on dad" then state ~" i want sole custody[residence]" giving no valid reason...

sole residence valid when concern over welfare of children in care of the other parent;

in this case, joint residency is apporpriate - but the actual days spent with each can be discussed -

starting point fifty fifty and work down from that taking into account practicalities? you and dc are lucky to have hands on involved father.

(i have sole residency - it is not what i want in a separated family -at one point i had a dream of fifty/fifty happy children flitting between two homes...we even bought the next door flat...but it all went to hell and i had no choice but to get sole residency due to severe concerns with ex; sole residency, no breaks... )

You're right that we're lucky to have such a great Dad, and I don't ever take that for granted. But from Monday to Friday he's around very little, travels abroad once/ twice a month, and that has obviously influenced our care patterns for the last ten years. Having equal time with children as a starting point and then going from there sounds idyllic, but maybe only if it's what your family has experienced up till then. Thanks for all the comments.

I disagree with the comments about how Dad should have 50/50. But also equally with OP wanting "sole".

As I understand it, the children should have as near to what they are used to as normal. If Mum works part time and Dad works full time - what is the usual split of time spent with Mum & Dad? Is Mum going to be sat at home twiddling her thumbs whilst the children are with dad's Au Pair? Not that an Au Pair hurt anyone ever but if it's not necessary?? Same goes for family members (although I appreciate less so)

Too often Dad will be aware that CSA payments are reduced if he has the children in his home more often - mum is left with less maintenance money and Dad enlists the help of his large family/ draws on funds from having had the opportunity of a full time career. and Mum struggles to make ends meet. The children spend vast amounts of time with neither parent.

No suggestion of that being the case here. But the immediate cries of "50/50 is best" are just too black and white. If 50/50 wasn't appropriate or considered necessary IN the marriage, why would it be the default once the marriage has ended? Was dad crying out to be able to spend half of the children's time with them while he was married? Or was he happy for Mum to do all of that while he worked away?

OP - it is extremely hard to accept that another person can parent your children as well as you can and that they'll be okay when away from you. But know that they will be fine. And in time they will thank you for respecting their relationship with their Dad. The outlook for children who don't have a good relationship with dad is often not so good. Of course sometimes it can't be helped but these kids can have both of you and that makes them, and in-turn you, very fortunate.