At what sort of age can children decide for themselves...

[MagicHouse]

Reading another thread, I was interested in what people say about when age of your children starts to become a factor in letting them decide for themselves whether they want to visit one of their parents.

My DD rarely wants to go to her dad's, especially disliking the longer weeks away she has during the holidays, and I have wondered whether, if she still feels like that when she's older (she's 6 at the mo), what sort of age is it reasonable for her to decide for herself.

It is a minefield, because I'm aware she might be saying she doesn't want to go for all sorts of reasons (not wanting to leave me for eg). At some point in the future, if it continued, I would seriously think about how often she should go...... but what sort of age in others' experience would this be? And for how long could one parent insist on the original contact order being adhered to?

Maybe it's a factor that our split was very acrimonious, and his parenting and treatment of her was a big factor in our divorce, so I would never want to just brush off anything she said about not wanting to go.

I think it's from about 8 upwards that the courts really take notice of the child's wishes, but if contact is doing the DC harm you can stop it and insist on going back to court and having new evidence considered. How bad is he? EG, violent, an alcoholic or drug addict, neglectful?

None of those things no, or I would be fighting hard to stop contact. He's a bully and a liar. But he's not an alcoholic/ drug addict. He's very aggressive when he loses his temper and I've known him to punch walls, but he's never hit her or me. She does say he smacks though, which is something he didn't do when we were together, though he was always threatening to. He's also controlling - everything has to be what he wants/ when he wants. He's like a small boy. He is happy when everything goes his way.

I was very concerned about contact when we first moved (there were other things I don't want to go into). But I took all the advice I could. Things seemed to settle, and I felt ok (though I will always watch out for my children). My DD always says she doesn't want to go, but she's been more relaxed coming home from her weekends. The holidays have been different because he has them for longer chunks, and my DD really didn't want to go this week. It's just something I've thought about - because at the moment I try to be positive about her going (to her), but I wondered how long I would need to do that for, and at which point it would be ok to say "well if you don't want to go, that's ok".

Whatever age children's wishes and feelings should be considered in light of the family background and the overall circumstances, although until they reach the age of around 16 adults should take the responsibility for making decisions. For example, you might ask a child how they felt about moving house or changing school but a child isn't able to understand all the implications of employment, finance or good exam results so it is parents who have the final say.

Psychiatrists and psychologists are always telling the courts how important it is for a child's sense of identity and self esteem to know and see both parents, even if a parent's behaviour leaves much to be desired by most people's standards. So only in exceptional cases is no contact deemed in the best interests of children. Children who "choose" one parent over the other often grow up shouldering a burden of guilt.

Rather than thinking about stopping contact it can be more constructive to try and address the reasons for a child's resistance to contact. Sometimes it is more to do with loyalty conflicts where a child feels disloyal to the parent with the majority of care by seeing the other parent. When that is the case it's a case of reassuring the child that it's OK for them to love the other parent too. A child might be estranged from a parent because of past events they can reasonably describe such as witnessing outbursts of temper and if the child suffers anxiety psychological therapy might help. Other times a child might realistically draw their own conclusions that contact with a strict or preoccupied parent is unrewarding in which case mediation might help to persuade the parent to change their behaviour.

Of course as children mature they understand better the implications of a decision and their wishes and feelings carry more weight. By the time they reach early teens their views carry considerable weight and contact orders usually end when a child reaches 16 unless the child has learning difficulties and is immature for their age.

6 is far too young to be involved in decisions of this magnitude.

Its quite likely that your dd is feeling torn between the two of you and it is also possible that she is telling you what you want to hear - that daddy is not as good as you at looking after her. Do you question her about her time with him or does she offer up these things without prompting?

If your split was acrimonious it is also possible that you are projecting your own feelings of hate for him onto what she is saying to you. A wide difference in parenting styles doesn't necessarily indicate abusive behaviour - more just crap parenting (and there is plent of that around!)

You will need to be positive about contact for many years yet for her benefit - she has a right to build a relationship with her dad without worrying about hurting your feelings.

You will need to be positive about contact for many years yet for her benefit - she has a right to build a relationship with her dad without worrying about hurting your feelings.

Yes I agree with this really. I really do try to be positive, and on the whole the year we have been apart seems to be working. If I had concerns I would deal with them. It was more wondering how I might deal with the situation if she said she didn't want to go when she is older, because part of me would not want to make her go.

I think you would need to consider the rationale behind your daughters views. When our children were teenagers it wasn't cool to see relatives or family friends, go to school or even go on holiday but I insisted and they usually enjoyed themselves and they now have lots of memories and understand the importance of family, friends and intergenerations.

Sounds like it's all pretty stable and sensible, then. In which case, when she gets to her teens, it might well be possible to negotiate with her father reasonably eg: I know it's your contact weekend but it's her mate's birthday party, can we swap some time around so she can go to it?

That sort of thing is what you want to aim for, but obviously it's not always possible (ie if parent with custody has left because the other parent is abusive or an alcoholic/addict).

In a way I see it the other way round - how old are they when they can cope with the change and at the speed they are often required to do so. Whilst continuing contact 9which should be done quickly) maybe it could be varied - so more day times and/or indirect contact and less over nights ? I know many adults who don't like over nights in strange places but children are just expected to go to a strange house often with a new person in it.

I don't think a child of any age should be supported to stop seeing a parent completely - its far more important than going to school, and few parents allow the child that level of autonomy!

But, I think it should become flexible and more child-led the older they get - as I'm currently trying to negotiate!

Thanks for all your advice. I do think sometimes it's difficult, but overall I think it's important to be positive and encourage contact unless you have serious worries. I appreciate people taking the time to reply.

I felt a bit uncomfortable in the end talking about how things were with my DD and her father and how he can be. (Even though I didn't really say much), and asked for the thread to be deleted. I see it hasn't though! But if it does disappear - that's why!