Maintenance. How do I figure out how much he should pay? Complicated.

[boredandrestless]

I am wanting to ask ex to increase his maintenance payment. I left him 3 years ago and since then he has paid me £10 a week. I asked for a low figure as I was still reeling from being in an emotionally abusive relationship and didn't have the confidence to ask for more, or to piss him off / make things more volatile by going through csa.

I am now more confident and feel really he should have done the decent thing and suggested a slight increase but this has never happened, despite me stating I would want to review the amount one year down the line.

He has two older boys to his first partner. I have no idea if she is currently receiving anything, he was originally assessed by the CSA for them when they split under the old rules which are more complicated.

He has remarried and now has a stepchild.

I do not know his wage amount. He is working full time employed, and also has a self employed business too.

What i would like is to be able to say "This is how much CSA would assess you as needing to pay me". However I don't know how i can calculate that without any info. Does anyone know if there is an advice line / organisation/ service I could ask for help??

Call the CSA. You can ask their advice, before you take any action.

You cant say to him "CSA have said you owe me this amount" without having his exact wage figures after tax etc as its impossible to calculate it otherwise.

It will be divided between the children he has.

For instance if he has a take home pay of £400 per week and he has three children, the estimated amount he would pay is £85 per week.

That £85 will be shared between three children.

The CSA may also take into consideration that he has a child living with him, even though its not his. Im not 100% on that. If they do take that into consideration, then the £85 will be shared between four children.

CSA reduce your payable amount by 15% if you have one child living with you, then they take the remaining amount to sort out between non resident children even if the child is not his. HTH

Yes I knew a child living with him would reduce what he pays, that's why I mentioned it, but don't know how much it is reduced by.

I didn't know you could call CSA for advise without them setting things in motion. I may do that then but I have very little faith in CSA TBH.

He also knows that his maintenance would be reduced if he has DS 2 nights a week. He therefore has him 5:30pm-7:30am twice a week to ensure this is set in place.

I mostly don't want the battle and bad feeling but then I get annoyed that he is dodging paying a reasonable amount.

Child Maintenance Options will give you advice without setting anything in motion (they can put you through to the CSA to put in the claim if that's what you decided), but I'm not sure how much help they'd be without knowing his wage etc. I would have thought they'd be able to advise how his previous ex claiming via CSA1 might affect your own claim though.

Under CSA2, the child living with him will affect how much of his wages are assessed - if he earns £200 a week for example, 15% (£30) will be taken off for his stepchild, leaving £170 as his assessable income. If there are 3 children eligible for maintenance (the older two plus your one) then 25% would be taken (£42.50) and split between the three children (just over £14 per child per week). It's then reduced by 1/7 for each overnight he has per week (averaged over the year).

Sorry, to clarify his maintenance would be 25% of the reduced figure of £170 in that example.

CSA have a calculator on their webpage that can tell you how much you would get based on how many other kids he has (both living with him and previous). You can try plugging various possible salaries into it to see what it comes up with.

My ex was paying me very little at first and (despite it being an amicable relationship, no abuse) it still took me a few years to get round to asking for more. Eventually I just suggested it was time for an update, and pursuaded him to tell me what he earned so I could put it into the CSA calculator. He grumbled, but has paid ever since.

If your ex is on a low(ish) wage, and is paying CSA to two previous children you might find it doesn't come to much more than £10 a week though - my ex pays £125 a month for two kids.

Eg - if he takes home £250 a week, this is reduced by around £40 if he has a child living with him, so he pays total of 25% of the remaining £210 which is £52 - you get 1/3 of this and his other ex gets 2/3 - so that would be £17 a week (ish). This is then reduced by 2/7 for the overnights - which would bring it down to around £12 a week.

Therefore if you think he takes home a good bit more than £250 a week it would be worth raising the issue.

I thought I could maybe ask them to calculate his wages from his job as if he were being paid national minimum wage maybe? He won't be BTW, he'll be earning more than that but it would give me the lowest amount possible wouldn't it.

His self employed stuff is no doubt creatively recorded anyway so may as well disregard it.

Will google child maintenance options . . . .

I think the CSA1 will complicate things. Can't remember why I think this but I have a vague memory that I can't quite grab - I suspect my DS will be assessed under CSA1 too?

It does annoy me he has ds the 2 nights but as few hours as possible. DS gets no quality time with him as it also involves a drive there and back to the town ex moved to. I know I sound a bit bitter about the 2 night thing but I know he thinks like this as he used to insist on having his older 2 boys two nights a week for this very reason.

If he's insisting on having your DS 2 nights a week to reduce maintenance, it sounds like he must be expecting you to go through the CSA anyway - in otherwise why do it?

The calculator on the webpage can work out the CSA he would pay based on minimum wage. You just need to find out what it currently is and times it by 40 (asuming 40 hour week) - then use this figure for his weekly wage. I don't think they'll actually deal with it that way - as they would need proof that he did work full time and what he actually got paid before they'd try and collect anything. Would agree you'd probably be best to write off part time self employed earnings as most likely off the books.

Okay I put minimum wage into the calculator, 3 kids, 1 other child living with him, has ds 2 nights per week, I would receive £14.66 per week as an estimate. He probably earns a bit more but he's not going to tell me is he! Don't know whether to bother or not but I will definitely ring for some advice tomorrow.

I'm assuming the current calculator is for csa2 calculations and it may be that DS is assessed under csa1 formula like his other 2 dcs.

Your DS wont be assessed using CSA1. His XP and her 2dcs will be switched to CSA2 when you made an application for maintenance.

However in October they will be switching to CSA3 apparently. so it will be different again. This will be 19% of gross salary for 3 or more kids. They will also take this info directly from HMRC, so it would take into account his self employed earnings!

They're thinking of changing again?!?!

The future rules of charging the parents involved makes me want to avoid involving the csa. As does the fact that I know from personal experience of dealing with them on ex's behalf (when he refused to open the letters and we were going to lose our house if they didn't calculate correctly, he was paying more than he should have been). Oh it makes me shudder just thinking about it and I certainly don't want them eating money that me and him could be spending on our ds when they are useless anyway!

Well at least I know then that we would be assessed under csa2, that makes it less complicated doesn't it!

He will definitely want to avoid CSA involvement at all costs so if I can suggest a new amount that is fair and reasonable I'm confident he will accept it. We are plodding along fairly civilly at the moment and I don't want to cause a major reaction from him.

They will be changing in Oct assuming the new computer system gets done. There will then be a period of grace before they start charging you for the new system!

They will charge you £25 to access the records from HMRC and give you a calculation figure and then a further £20 for an application for maintenance if you decide to use them rather than a private arrangement. The NRP then has the option of paying the RP directly, thus avoiding the %age charges for using them as a collection agency. However it will still class as a case under the CSA, and if the NRP defaults arrears will be liable. If the NRP defaults on paying the RP gets to choose whether to use the CSA as a collection agency thus incurring the %age charges. (The idea being it will only cost the NRP more if he messes around paying maintenance, and the RP Will use it, because maintenance less a %age is better than no maintenance at all)

Magic, under the new system can you really access the HMRC records for the non-resident parent? OMG - seriously? I am desperate to know what my ex-H earns, as I think he is seriously under-contributing - but I need some kind of proof before I take up arms (so to speak) because it won't be pretty.

Yes under CSA3 calculations will be based on information held by HMRC and thus will be updated yearly. I am assuming therefore that it will include any earnings he declares through his self-employment.

In case I wasnt clear, its the CSA who access the HMRC records (Costs you £25 for them to do this) I believe you then get a letter stating
gross pay per week = x,
reduction for shared care = x
maintenance if collected through CSA would be x.

However bear in mind the schemes not coming in until October(ish), so youd need to wait until then.

But having said that Octobers not very far away is it

Wow, I'd pay alot more than £25 to know what ex-H earns!!!! I have no problem waiting until October. This is great news.

Wooohhooo ive been useful it doesnt happen often

Magic - I've seen you post about child maintenance alot & your advice is always useful!
I've done a quick bit of research & I understand the gross income aspect & that it is on two tiers, but I can't find any info about what percentage will be deducted if the NRP has other children. My ex-H has two children from his 2nd marriage. Do you have any idea what percentage will be deducted for them?

I belive gross income will be reduced by 16% if he has 2 DCs living with him.

%ages are:
One child ? 12%
Two children ? 16%
Three or more children ? 19%

Thank you Magic - really helpful. I've done a few back of the envelope calculations and I'm feeling hopeful. Role on October!

Wow I take it all back, that would be worth every penny! Them being able to see what he pays and discouraging messing about too. Sounds lovelyin theory - lets hope it works in practice!

I never knew what my ex was earning half the time when we lived together, never mind now we don't. If he won the lottery he'd still cry poor.

I might hang fire for a few months and then do it all officially . . . . .

No messing about or him playing down what he earns.

Thank you Magic, and everyone else who has posted such helpful replies - I love Mumsnet I do!