More contact purely to reduce child support?

[jumpy2012]

We are now divorced and have lived separately for over 2 years. We have both begun new relationships with partners who live elsewhere. The DC are almost 13 and 15 and since separation have had 2 nights with dad one week and 3 the next.

ExH has emailed me and said "There have been changes in domestic arrangements for you and I, I want DC1 and DC2 to spend more time with me, i.e. 50% of their time. Let me know how you want to proceed."

He loves them but doesn't 'get' them. IYKWIM...he is emotionally illiterate.

I suspect his intention is to reduce the amount of child maintenance he pays to nil. I guess I should ask the DC what they think about spending more time there.

It won't be nil - I get CM from my ex even though DD is 50:50.

But, your DCs are old enough to express an opinion and IMO, too old to try and implement a fixed schedule onto - if anything, it will naturally become more flexible as they get older, and the number of nights may vary from week to week for each DC depending on their activities and preferences

Living arrangements for children needs to be agreed. If no agreement can be reached and a court decides the views of the children will carry considerable weight, although an order for 50:50 shared residence doesn't seem to be that common unless both parents work full time and there is a history of shared care 50:50. Of course SR can be in different proportions, but an applicant who is deemed domineering and controlling is unlikely to be awarded SR.

CM and living arrangements are treated separately. The argument that a parent only wants the children for money works both ways. In reality the increase/decrease in CM rarely reflects the costs and having the children more leaves parents out of pocket. Most parents just want to have their children with them and money is a secondary concern. Under the new CSA gross income scheme due to be implemented in October there will be no CM liability when care is shared exactly 50:50. Initially only new cases will be on the new scheme and older ones will be transferred in the next year or so.

Maybe he wants to see them more? Maybe he doesn't get them because he doesn't spend as much time with them as you do ? Maintenance may reduce but he will gave to pay for them when they are living with him so its not as if he will be doing this to stop supporting his children .

What do the kids think ?

We only live 2.5 miles apart, he has had ample opportunities to see them more. When he goes away on business or on holiday, he doesn't bother to rearrange dates, the girls just miss out.

If the CSA rules are changing so that 50/50 means no child support payable, he is mean enough to do that. His basic salary is about £85k btw.

Ask the dc - up to them really

I don't get the argument that he wants to see them more to reduce CS. Surely in drawing that conclusion, you're assuming that the costs of him having the children more are nil, or at least less than the CS? Wouldn't it save you money for him to have them more? And if so wouldn't this offset the drop in CM?

Surly 13 and 15Y olds have loads going on in their lives and will want to sort out their own access arrangements.

They are also adept at being very expensive, seeing more of them is unlikely to be a cheap option.

Have a similar issue. Ex is demanding asking for 50:50. I know that this is so that he can get benefit/tax credit and possibly CM from me. He's asked me to sign over the CB book before for this reason (was quite upfront about it that time). The trouble for me is that he has persuaded the kids that 50:50 is 'fair' before he actually consulted me about changing arrangements.

Are you sure about the rules changing to mean no CS if 50-50? I wasn't aware that was a change they were suggesting.

At present it reduces by 1/7 for each night they have them - so on 50-50 that counts as 3 nights per week (they round down) so you'd still get 4/7 of the total (as opposed to the 5/7 you're presumably getting right now). And your ex would have additional costs in feeding, entertaining them, etc when he has them.

If you're right about it dropping completely when care is 50-50 then that ought to mean that your ex is not just providing for the kids when they're with him, but also contributing to their overall costs (clothes, school trips, etc) - which the current system assumes the resident parent still pays for even when care is split 50-50. But I'm really not sure that it is changing as you say (though possible your ex has misunderstood and thinks it will)

Agree that you should ask the kids what they think. Worth keeping a record of how many nights he actually has had them in the past year - in case you need to prove it to child support.

"In a small minority of cases, where overall care is found to be shared exactly equally, there will be no statutory maintenance liability. "

Reg 69, Child Support Maintenance Calculation Draft Regulations 2012

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/cmec-maintenance-calculation-regulations-2012-technical-consultation.pdf

That's interesting STIDW - but I think it must mean where the parents really do split all the costs (clothing, etc) equally between them as well as the costs of day to day care.

The thing is, that as the OP's ex is a high earner, it could be that he would prefer to do this, as it would reduce his overall cost (teenagers are expensive but 20% of £85,000 is quite a lot of money). Whether it would actually be practical to be sharing every little cost is another matter - though with two kids you could in theory have one parent responsible for each of their general expenses.

It's still another question whether it would be the best thing for the kids....

Child support is a blunt instrument and it means exactly what it says, there will be no CM liability when care is shared 50:50. The assumption is that when parents share care 50:50 they are able to negotiate and agree arrangements themselves so the CSA won't need to be involved.

Wouldn't that produce a bit of an oddity - when if you have children 3 nights a week (even if this was Fri-Mon every week) you'd have to pay child support of 4/7 of the total due, but if you had them an extra night a fortnight (so 50-50) then it would drop to zero? Seems a bit odd. Could see why non-resedent parents who were near to having 50% would try to get 50-50. I don't think that is what it means though if it says "a small minorty of cases" - I think they assume that usually one parent takes overall responsibility for the child's costs, and that only in a minority of cases do they actually split all the costs equally between them.

Under the current system the parent who doesn't receive child benefit is deemed to be the non-resident parent. It's quite clear that under the new system the Government's intention is that the rules for equal shared care will change so there is no NRP in those cases were care is shared 50:50 and neither parent will pay CM.

"Chances to equal shared care rules will make the system fairer since both parents are providing for their children half the time. The decision will reflect the care of the child rather than simply the receipt of Child Benefit to determine the parent with care." Impact Assessment - The Child Support Maintenance Calculation Regs 2012

"The Government are proposing changes to the new child maintenance service so that where care of the child is shared equally between both parents, neither parent would be responsible to pay maintenance. There is a view that parents with equal shared care will be able to make their own family ­base­d arrangement. " CMOptions spokesman

www.wikivorce.com/divorce/Divorce-Advice/Child-Maintenance-Clinic/348659-Re-CSA3-and-shared-care.html#348659

A lot of other legislation is going to have to change if that is the case - exH's payments to the CSA were protected when his debt repayment plan was agreed; he actively encouraged me to use the CSA despite a 50:50 care arrangement so that the money was 'ring fenced' and not swallowed up in his debt repayment plan.

At that time, he was adamant that in return I should provide everything for DD I still have flashbacks to the wellies in the snow incident and he even asked me for a clothing allowance for her from the CSA money he paid?!?

Interestingly, in the last few weeks, he has completely deviated from that pov, and has purchased himself multiple duplicates of DDs school uniform and essentials that she doesn't need two of and which I had already been purchasing gradually over time in anticipation of the change of school.
He said at the time that by buying it all myself I was excluding him from her life - I now suspect it is an attempt to prove that we have true 50:50 care in anticipation of the new legislation

I asked the DC what they want to do. I phrased it very carefully, saying that Dad wanted to spend more time with them and what did they think they would like to do. DD1 said no, she is happy with the existing schedule. DD2 said she would like a bit more time with him, and we decided that I would suggest to him that she stays over on Sunday nights on his weekend instead of coming back home at dinner time. This is a practical solution that works for both DC.

I have emailed him and will see what I get back. I doubt he will like the fact that DD1 doesn't want more time, but as she is not available on a Sunday night anyway (she boards) he may agree with my suggestion.