Divorced & emigrating

[anxiousants]

Hello
New here, but I really couldn't think where else to go to ask this type of question. I'd be really grateful if people didn't judge me too harshly, I really am just looking for some advice and my situation is complicated.

I separated from my son's father when he was 11 months old (3 years ago). We had only been together 10 months when I found out I was pg, and we married quickly due to family expectations - our marriage only lasted 4 months.

I was the higher earner, so I went back to work full time and my ex took on primary child caring responsibilities. I also suffered from PND so that caused some other complications in our relationship. When we split up, I returned to my home town and initially took DS with me, but my ex said I was taking everything away from him, plus I really wasn't coping, so I agreed that we'd do the reverse to the traditional and he'd be with his Dad most of the time and with me alternate weekends.

My ex began a serious relationship within 2 months of our split and is still with that lady now, who is currently pg herself. They've pretty much excluded me from my son's life as regards major decisions, school things etc and our relationship is rather strained.

It was always my plan to emigrate - even before we had DS - and I was very clear to my ex about that from the start of our involvement with each other. He actually said he wanted to do it too, but when it came down to it and I suggested making plans I quickly learned that he had no intention.

It's come to a point now where I am travelling back and forth to the place I plan to live as often as I can and as it's long-haul it's getting incredibly expensive. In an ideal world, I'd want to take DS with me - but how likely is it that I could given our current arrangement? I'm really worried how it will impact mine and DS's relationship if I go without him, but my ex has impacted and controlled my life negatively enough for too long now and I'm not prepared to give up on leaving. There is nothing here for me besides my son whose life I've already been squeezed out of to all intents and purposes... I'm just miserable and feel so trapped and stuck...

What is your question? Not sure what you want to hear?

It's not a case of what I want to hear as such, I'm wondering how likely it is that I'd be able to take him with me....

Oh sorry, I have no idea and no experience.

Could imagine though that it would be hard to obtain sole custody, since not being the primary carer, to enable you to do this, can't imagine exp would be happy, and what about ds? Does he want to go, leave his df? Are you very close?

I'm all for following your heart but when there are dcs involved it's a whole other ball game.

Sorry, I'm not much help at all!

I think you should repost over on Legal. My 2p worth is that courts are generally reluctant to change the status quo. So if your ds normally lives with his dad day to day, it is unlikely that you'll be granted leave to remove him permanently from the jurisdiction.

You would need to apply under the Children Act 1989 for a specific issue order. The court would have to be convinced that it would benefit your son to live with you abroad, and would take into account all aspects, particularly emotional, social, educational, psychological and practical.

To be perfectly honest, if I were a betting woman I'd say your chances of success in the current set up are slim. Sorry.

Thanks very much both. I'm new to this site so unaware of the Legal board. Worth a try. I think you're probably right though, unfortunately.

I would say that it is highly unlikely I am afraid. It is not easy to take a kid away from the country, even if you are the resident parent and can justify that you could do your work as a parent better with support of family abroad, etc.

Being the non resident parent, I am afraid you have a very very slim chance. Especially if the child is already well settled into the current arrangement, safe and happy.

Your son is only 3, is that correct? If since he was 11 mths old (so most of his life) he has lived with his father and only seen you every other weekend then (unless there's abuse or some other exceptional circumstance) no judge in the land would allow you to emigrate with your DS! Imagine how terrifying it would be to be taken away from everyone he knows, his home, friends, perhaps nursery or Pre school and taken to live overseas with his mum who until now he only sees every other weekend.

I don't want to judge you for your decision as it seems you were in a tough place when you separated and let your EX have primary care in your sons beat interests, which must have been very hard for you. However, you can't just take him away now.

I assume you're not going to move overseas and just leave your 3 year old son in the Uk?

Why don't you try and re negotiate contact now you feel able to care for him. Ask for more time with you son, perhaps initially one weeknight a week. Then maybe over time build up to having 50/50 care of him with your Ex. Maybe move closer to where they live to make this possible?

He's 4. Ideally I wanted to do all this before he started school, but it isn't going to happen. I know how unreasonable I sound, I just wanted to see what he likelihood of it was.

I already have several things lined up in the other country. Renegotiating contact here will be tricky. My ex and his gf go to lengths to exclude me from his life as it is. Thank you for the advice everyone, much appreciated.

Anxious- Its not down to your EX and his girlfriend to dictate when you see him, he's still a baby, he needs his mummy and his daddy! Take him to court, get a residency order with contact days and times arranged, I bet you'd get every other weekend, a weekday each week and possibly half of school holidays too.

If EX is making it hard you need to fight for your son! Don't just give up on him and emigrate without him! How often wold you see him if you go without him?

I really can't imagine what you're going through, it must be so terribly hard for you, however, my posts here may be a little unjust as I can't honestly say I can empathise with you as I can't ever imagine a situation where I could just leave my child behind, Id be here fighting to see him with every last ounce of energy in my body.

+Hard as i9t5 is the choice is between career & your son.

There is a woman at my school whose son (7) is in my dd's class and her dd (12) is in the uk. The children have different fathers and the dd's father wouldn't let the dd come. The woman has been here a few years now and she goes back and sees her dd. apparently the girl doesn't want to emigrate now anyway. It seems like an impossible situation.

I think that both morally and legally you cannot remove your son from his primary carer. You will have the role in your child's life of 'auntie' I should imagine if you leave without him, but he is settled in a family life, school, friends and to uproot him because you are pursuing your dreams sounds like there is no room for compromise on behalf of your son or looking after his emotional well being. So the decision really is relationship with son, or your dreams. I do think you do not have the right to be upset that your ex doesn't want to emigrate too. That really is unfair. Plans you made together when you were in a couple are not binding and he has the right to not uproot because you have a dream to.

I think it is a really hard decision. I could absolutely not leave my children. There is a little bit of me which is wondering whether you are running away from your problems, your memories of PND, bad relationships, issues with contact. I know before my marriage breakdown I dreamt of running away, even leaving the children behind, and for me it was caused by stress and was not 'real'. Luckily I had a lot of counselling before I ever made a decision like that. Those thoughts of greener grass no longer enter my mind.

However, if I were to think of it in terms of my children's father wanting to emigrate away from our children, I would be surprised at his ability to want to live his life without them. But that is what he has chosen to do (even if he has only moved a few hours away) and I not only see the effect on his relationship with them, but the strain on the children. But relationship breakdowns are difficult, there are no winners, especially not the children, and at the end of the day no one (worth anything) will judge you for going.

The issues with contact currently really aren't that straightforward. The new gf has jealousy issues and I've never been able to speak to her - despite trying numerous times. My ex says she has no interest in meeting me, and for some reason they can't see why it's necessary. I can't even go to their front door, I have to ring from the car and wait until my ex comes out to pick him up. Just an example, it's all very difficult.

Savoy - it's good to know there are other people in the same situation, so thanks for that. When he gets older it would be ok for him to make the trip a couple of times a year. I'd plan to come back here 2 or 3 times a year myself.

Daffy - perhaps I articulated the emigration situation badly. My ex told me he didn't want to go after we had DS but before we separated. I felt short changed (and yes, perhaps I'm more selfish than most women!) because I'd been really clear about who I was and where I was going and he'd agreed to it all - I wouldn't have stayed in the relationship beyond the first 2/3 months if he'd been honest with me. He subsequently told me that he was just saying what he thought I wanted to hear at the time. But of course I wouldn't expect him to still want to move away now, even if he had wanted to at the time! I've been in extensive therapy myself, and if anything it's made me more determined to go. I've lived my whole life trying to please other people and as such have made myself miserable.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Greatly appreciated. You're helping me to organise my thoughts, which is really valuable.

Sorry, RedHelenB, I didn't answer your question. No it isn't - it's about quality of life.

I'm sorry you've obviously been through a very hard time if you've been having therapy and it sounds as hough you're doing well and working your way through to the other side now!

However, please think really carefully about leaving your son. I know you don't want to be judged but perhaps he will judge you when he's older for leaving him and emigrating anyway for a "better quality of life" isn't your son's quality of life greatly improved by having his mother around. You're proposing you only see him 2-3 times a year when you come back. Perhaps it's just that I don't understand how you feel, I would live in shit and put myself through hell in order to have my children around me and I find it very doficult to understand why anyone wouldn't feel the same.

Why does it matter if your EX's new partner is jealous of you, take it as a compliment. Who cares if you wait on the car at drop off and pick ups, doesn't hurt really. Why don't you go to court for a residency order like I said, get proper arrangements in place, see you son more regularly and build on your relationship with him. It might be hard, stressful and cost a fortune but surely what matters is your son being able to have a close relationship with you and his father as he's growing up!

When he is older you can emigrate and follow your dream and maybe when he is old enough (teens I mean) may chose to come too.

anxiousants I totally understand where you are coming from in relation to this.

I have lost count of the number of times I have thought that my DD would be better off living with her Dad and SM, with me out of the picture, rather than try and remain a part of her life and subject her to the stress and unhappiness that the continued conflict between me and her Dad would undoubtedly cause her.

My main motivation for fighting to remain a part of DD's life is her age - she was significantly older than your DS when we split, and approaching her teens now, and because I have remained a part of her life, she is becoming closer to me than when she was younger. Had she been solely brought up by her Dad and SM, then I am sure that they would fulfil this role.

So, I do get it, and with everything that has happened, I can totally understand why this seems to be an option that you are considering, even if other people can't understand how it can even be in your mind.

I don't think, given the situation, that you would secure a court order allowing you to move abroad with your son, and it would be hard for him to be taken away from his primary carer so suddenly.

Some mums, and more Dads, do move away and chose to become a less integrated part of their DC's life. There is a good website that I have gained some perspective from in the past: MATCH

I moved overseas with my DD when she was nearly 3.
Her Dad was in the UK but has now moved back to his country. We had met when I lived in his country and moved to the UK together. He knew I wanted to go back overseas and raised no objections. We had been apart for about a year.
He now sees her twice a year when I take her to see him. Skype calls work occasionally. My DD does not know her Dad and has no real relationship with him. I don't know if that is the distance or him being a twat.
I moved for my job and because I knew I would be happier and if I was happier so would DD but it is hard being away from family and long term friends.

Anxious thank you for clarifying that. For what it is worth, I do not think you are at all selfish. You sound like you are very clear in your mind about your needs and wants, have been honest with other people, and are not making any decisions on a whim. I hope you manage to find a way to get your needs met. You absolutely deserve to be happy and fulfilled. There must be a way to get round it all. Perhaps your DD can come and stay all holidays? So that you can maintain that relationship with her.

how do you know you'll get contact for holidays if ex difficult now - plus he and gf will tell child you abandoned them - your child realy really needs you and it would be sad if you become a distant figure - agree you should try to get better contact arrangements now - surely tehre is a job, place to live etc in thsi couintry which would fulfil you? - things change as children grow but tehy need their mums more not less, even if not resident with mum (I had a non resident mum). Id hesitate to give advice in rl but yiou asked here so Id say under no circumstances leave your child - stay in UK and be part of his life - and good luck x.

I am in a situation where DD's dad is in another country, and it is difficult and sad for everyone. My subjective perspective is that you have to stay and fight for more contact with your son. It's not fair that you didn't have that contact in the first place.

I suppose I don't believe your life really will be better by moving away. I've moved abroad a few times, and also around the UK, and it's hard starting again, and no guarantee of a happier life.

I know a woman who left her son with his father to move to the otherside of the world to have a baby with a new man. I still can't understand how she could do that, and it makes me so sad for the son.