Ex saying things to eldest child.

[FateLovesTheFearless]

The ex and I have been separated for a year. Whilst we both agreed we wanted to stay amicable for our four children, a year on its not, he is very bitter.

Over the last year there have been plenty of incidents ranging from the kids in dangerous situations when with him to being inconsistent with contact and our own agreed maintenance.

I have never refused to let him have the kids barr one weekend when he was very obviously stoned (he is a cannabis user) on collecting the children.

The problem. My eldest is 7 years old. I am currently awaiting a referral for a possible assessment, doctor has mentioned the autism/aspergers spectrum. She has always been a difficult child to parent (but a delight to have) however in the last few months her behaviour has really worsened. As has her school work.

I have slowly been discovering my ex has been telling her things. Disrespectful things towards me. He has even gone so far as to be stood behind me making faces and hand gestures when I have been talking to her. The most recent came out last night, he told her that during our eight year marriage I never did anything, he did all cooking, cleaning, kids, everything. Now for a start that's complete and utter rubbish, he worked full time and I was ran off my feet caring for four kids under six and the house! But the point is, he is actively encouraging my daughter to have a bad opinion of me.

She has started flat out refusing to do things I ask. Giving me the worst sort of looks and generally acting like I am a horrible person. She wants to spend her time alone, away from everyone and gets upset very very easily.

I feel I have done absolutely everything in my power to encourage a good relationship is kept with her father. I have never bad mouthed him, put him down to her. I enrolled her on a course at school to help her deal with separation. But my daughter must be so confused. For everything I am doing, he is undoing. Telling her things like he will always love me, can't let me go etc.

I feel as though I am losing my eldest as dramatic as that may sound. She and her father have always been exceptionally close and it upsets me very much that he thinks it's okay to burden a seven year old with his (stoned) version of our marriage. I am very worried my daughter is going to end up very messed up if I don't do something.

A very big part of me is swinging towards what i always said I wouldn't do. Stopping contact. The ex is not a reasonable man and he is so bitter that there is no discussing to be had.

Has anyone else been in this situation? What did you do if so?

Don't stop contact. I always find this "my ex is turning my kids against me" scenario a bit odd, My kids love their dad & I could bad mouth him all I like & that wouldn't change. You just have to carry on being a good mum - it seems to me that you have your hands full with all those young children & perhaps are blowing it al out of proportion?

The changes in her behaviour (plus that it's both at school and home) sound almost like they could be a red flag, isn't this the sort of thing people say a child does when bullied?

Is there someone (professional) you can talk to about this, to help you figure out if it's "just" the ex poisoning her mind or whether something else is going on (could be on the play yard, mightn't be anything to do with him)

Why do you send them off with a cannabis user? Do he's a drug addict?

He tells me he doesn't smoke it around them. Whilst I don't believe it, there is nothing I can do to prove it is there?

When it comes to turning a child against a parent yes it can happen. I was brought up with two divorced parents that told me all sorts of tales to make me think badly of the other and yes at my eldests age it worked until I was older and more able to come to my own conclusions.

As I said, my eldest has an exceptionally close relationship with her father, I had PND for the first two years of her life and he took over a lot. She for want of a better word worships him. Which I am fine with, it's her father. What I am not fine with is for him to use our seven year old child as a sounding board for his grievances regarding our marriage. I left because he got violent but it will be a cold day in hell before my kids know that. I don't agree with bad mouthing the other parent and it's very clear she is being affected by it.

I have been to the school and spoken to her too. There is no bullying and she enjoys school.

Any chance there's something more going on with her father? Could you call, I dunno, Childline or something? Or make sure she knows about them (as I think they're more for children to get help)

Does she have anyone (adult, not your or your ex) that she can talk to? Has she had councelling for the break-up?

She went to a course at her school for eight weeks, called the seasons of change which was for children with divorcing parents, bereaved children etc. she absolutely loved it and they could all speak openly with a promise nothing would be said to anyone outside the room. After it finished the class leaders told me the summer had gone from being quite upset about the separation to understanding that whilst it's sad, she still has us both and the separation was nothing caused by her. They were confident she was dealing with everything fine by the end. Since the end of the course, I haven't heard her say she wished we were still together like she used to. I didn't think she needed any further help and everything was okay for a month or so, until this past month or two.

I went to the doctor last week about her behaviour as there have always been certain things such as getting herself into dangerous situations, tip toe walking, food issues, sleep issues, there would be a big list to be honest. She is struggling with reading and writing in school but is ahead of herself with maths.

see if you can get her back to see the same counsellor who led the course or if you can speak to that person for ideas.

while not good to bad mouth (lie) but if she witnessed any violence then you should not deny it . the truth should not be hidden.

see if you can get a referal to a family therapist and attend with your ex? woudl that be feasible?

get school to refer to educational psychologist as well.

I think all children have these times...they test you and deliberately push you away to see how far they can go with something, etc

I think it has more to do with seeking reassurance and things...(will you leave if I'm horrible to you or will you stay?)...it's a very common question after separation in a family and the need to know that they are safe...this might be a common response to this as it's difficult for children to express any other way.

As your DS is 7yrs+, I would find some time for a heart to heart...telling her you understand that things have been difficult and some things may still be confusing, etc. That you understand that is why she has said or done things to upset you. she will always have your love no matter what and that this includes when she has done this sort of thing. That some of the things she has done or said have been hurtful for you and made you feel sad. That everyone can feel like she has been and say and do things that they don't really mean.
That you are always doing everything you can to help her to be happy and ok and you will always help her and talk to her about anything she wants to and it's always going to be ok. That she can be as horrible to you as she wants to be, but that you will always love her and never leave her...so she's stuck with you no matter what!...

I would probably just take every opportunity to keep reminding her of this as often as possible and hope that this helps

She is just at the right age for this type of testing and pushing. It's a bit about power and control too...maybe find something that can just be for the big girls..eg you and her...she is the big girl and you think it might be time for her to be able to do certain things and that you can do them together and have special time to share something...you trust her to be mature and that she is capable of things...maybe some chores that only she is allowed to do...

you can't do much about xh but letting him know that his snipes and comments is screwing his dd's head up and it is not good for her...he needs to leave his opinions at the door for the DC's well being. Also that you understand he may be finding separation from them difficult at times but you are willing to help that be better and are open to whatever he might want to suggest but that the children need to stay with you for school and routines not to change too much. I think sometimes ppl need to hear that we can appreciate their position and have some care for that....men don't express themselves like women do and often they behave a certain way because of this...

it's a difficult for everyone xx

She did see the last attack, before I told him it was over, we have spoken about it but I think she just blocks it out. It was in the early hours of the morning, he had woken me up drunk and attacked me, I didn't know she had come down the stairs then ran back up.

I do make time for my older two, quite often we have wii nights or beauty nights. They tend to be the times when they are gabbing away that I hear things that have been said, I never ask.

We do have heart to hearts often too, normally at bedtime and she gets lots of reassurance that I am there for her and that she can always talk to me. It's through one of them that I found she was struggling to sleep because of 'so many thoughts' and got her on the course. She says she doesn't struggle with going to sleep now.

I spoke to her this morning, she says everything is great at school.

I also phoned stbxh and made it very clear that I absolutely wouldn't stand for him using dd as a sounding board to vent his bitterness on.

He has them every other weekend but a month or so back he had them on Wednesdays. I put a stop to it after weeks of inconsistencies on taking them and felt that in the school week they should stay at home. When speaking on the phone this morning he said he did what he did because he was upset about Wednesday's. Before I dropped contact on Wednesday's I spoke to both girls (the ds are too young) and explained my reasons, they were agreeable and are happy with the consistency they have now.

I will speak to the school again too.

I'm not saying keep it in the family or anything but ther are 2 sides to therapy type group things....

on the one hand it is very positive that she is able to discuss things amongst peers in school who have similar situations etc but the other side of that is that it may be saying that you or xh can't help her and you have sent her there for help....

it can be a bit double edged and though helpful in lots of ways it has it's own sort of downside too...it can also be affirming that there is a problem and she has a problem...iynwim....

every other week is quite hard too...there could be some resentment that this is not feeling like enough for her and she needs more time with xh...especially as it was more than this before and that can be confusing....why doesn't dad want to see me?, why did things have to change?...is she maybe blaming you for this?...

Having possibly seen a situation with her parents too...it can be worrysome to see someone so changed from what you thought they always were....it could be that pushing thing again...will you do this too sort of worry....if I made you angry enough, sad enough, etc...
xx

RedHelenB - oh, it happens. Maybe you can't imagine a situation where a child is desperate to keep the love and approval of a parent he/she is afraid of losing, and will do so by rejecting the other parent, but it happens.

This is happening to me, but with a four-year-old. This is probably an easier age, as she will cuddle me while saying conversationally "You're evil and my daddy said you tried to kill me". I've asked my solicitor to send a letter that says I know ex is badmouthing me and if he continues, I may have to consider moving to supervised contact. Tbh, I don't yet know if it's going to make a massive difference, but I feel at least it is on record and he knows he can't just act like this with impunity.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing - you don't necessarily have to stop contact for ever, but you could say that contact will have to take place in a contact centre for a certain period, in the hope that it will cause him to behave better. You know your ex best and this strategy won't work for everyone - some fathers (yes, I mean fathers, gendered as it is!) get very angry at being told what to do and just disappear, which sounds like it would be very hard for your dd.

I'm with c'estlavie, in that I wouldn't conceal the fact that is was your ex's behaviour that caused you to leave. That's not to say you should start badmouthing him, but it doesn't have to be a secret.

You have my sympathies, and it sounds like you're doing a great job. Your focus needs to be on keeping the best possible relationship with your dd. If you're kind and consistent, she'll get past through the confusion eventually.

But the point is, you are the constant & it is YOUR behaviour that will determine a child's attitude to you. I think children do go through a stage of testing how much you love them, even without a split family, Nickname. All stopping contact will do is reinforce the fact that mummy hates daddy & is stopping her eldest dd from seeing him!

Honestly, the best bit of advice I got was to NOT seek to determine what lind of father my ex was/is but to concentrate on me as a parent.

There is nothing wrong with my behaviour or parenting. There is everything wrong with my exes behaviour and parenting. It's that simple.

that was a bolt from the blue fate ...you are very angry?...making you sound quite unreasonable...which anger has a way of doing to us

this is getting to you more than you may have admitted before and you will have to try and make sure this doesn't spill over in the wrong places...

nothing wrong with feeling like this but you will need to work on what you can and put aside what you can't and find the balance with it.

I'm sorry you are so hurting and I understand you have good reason (((hugs)))

I am not angry, it was a statement. I would agree my parenting needs to be addressed if all my children were having similar issues but as it stands it's my eldest and I don't feel there is anything different in my parenting of her. There is a reason she is behaving in such manners but I don't believe it's down to any inconsistencies on my behalf.

What is happening is her father is telling her things a seven year old should not be burdened with. I have personal experience of what it's like when one parent attempts to turn you against the other and I don't want it for my child.

That's not to say I won't consider other factors such as my parenting. Her course leaders were confident in her home life with me from her conversations on her course and I have no reason to doubt how I am with her.

sympathise - and recognise as have similar isues with oldest whose behaviour has gone to pot since dh left and can be very aggressive/hostile to me. I try not to take bait for a row but am human and we do row - its always poor daddy this,a nd how could you have done/not done this - just spouting his diatribes and self pity. I have to accept this is going to carry on and grow a very thick skin- I try to give message I love you even if you're rude, unco-operative etc - and wait for all the nonsense to calm down so we can just get on with living. What I don't do is discuss what was said or try to justify myself - I dont argue about his oinions of me as think if I refuse to engage its just better. I may be delusional but seems to me any other approach just bound to fail. fate - don't feel alone - think it happens to most of us in a nasty divorce /separation sometime - kids angry - who else to verbally beat up but Mum? - I do make it clear its not ok to speak to me rudely etc and try to make sure Im also polite etc - just feels like shoving a boulder uphill sometimes - i console myself with thought if Im patient enough, it will stop - also sometimes we have good moments which I treasure! - I never badmouth twunt of a father, ever - makes me feel better anyway.
Don't feel the need to be so defensive either - I refute idea all bad behaviour mother's fault etc - don't engage with anyone who suggests it is - you're not on trial.

Well since then, things have very much improved with eldest dd. she has been her usual self again until yesterday morning after getting back from her fathers. She was very quiet, I asked what was wrong. She told me her father had been driving her around this weekend without a seatbelt and then got very upset because her father had told her she wasnt to tell anyone.

I highly suspect she is an aspie but awaiting assessment, wearing a seatbelt is more than just safety to her. It's a part of her routines and she would have been very uncomfortable without one. He broke the law, put my child in danger and is now about to receive a letter from my solicitor stating my concerns regarding the children's safety both physical and mental. It's my last step before supervised contact.