how much is reasonable contact with dad?

[homemadecookie]

Hi, i'll try making this short... my ex and I have informal agreement that he gets dc every fortnight (fri/sat) and every thurs night. He wants more but it disrupts their routine. They're 5years old (twins) , and always come back badly behaved and tired. I've said I don't want them to stay a thurs night after the summer as they start school. He's not happy and his gf said that she needs to talk to me as 'the arrangements will be Changing anyway" ? I'm now worried that he'll ask for 50/50 contact. I'm happy for him to see them after school, but want them home in bed as usual. Ex was in hosp last year with severe depression, caused by stress, and feels he's better when he see's dc. I've suggested mediation, but i'm worried about increasing contact. Any advice please?

What are you worried about? And his depression, what is that to do with it?

If he goes to court, they will give him MORE than what he is currently getting - he may well get every other weekend (pick up Friday from school, drop off Monday morning at school, therefore 3 nights not two), a mid-week overnight AND half of all school holidays. That's roughly the minimum starting point now.

Sorry Olympia, I didn't make it clear, because of his depression he's being told to avoid stressful situations. Therefore whenever he asks for something I end up giving in, when I don't I then end up with his family (dm, ds, gf, sil) putting in their tuppenceworth. They say its for the dc's sake, but really they're looking out for him. He's not allowed to be on his own with them, so dc normaly stay with gf or granny. He may or may not be there, this may be resolved by the time they go to school or not?
Cardy, thanks for telling me the min, they do stay over every other weekend thurs-sun, so its 4 nights a fortnight. They never get enough sleep though and I don't want them going to school tired.

Leaving his depression aside for a second, I think he's perfectly reasonable to ask to see more of his kids. I assume he loves them just as much as you do. Currently he goes a week without seeing them ( Thu - Thu ). It is in the children's interests to have regular, quality contact with their father, and their gran.

It would depress me tbh if my XP said she wanted to stop the midweek sleep over. And I think you do need to keep in mind that for him ( and by the sound of it his family ) your suggestion of less time is only going to fuel their resolve to push for more time, they'll see you as the bad guy, and it'll damage any amicability that exists currently.

The issue of dc's behaviour when they return is I think a very tricky one. My XP ( as I'm sure a lot do ) also comments on this and it's difficult to know what the solution is as we're two different people, who couldn't make the relationship work, who have different styles of parenting.

Add to that the fact that by virtue of seeing my dd infrequently the time with her is 'special' and has a very different rhythm to the weekly humdrum and stricter schedules that she experiences with her mum.

There should of course be discipline when with dad, it can't all be ice cream and fun in the park. I'm just trying to say that to a degree the behaviour is / can be a product of the situation of being a split family, not necessarily all due to dad's lax attitude to dc.

Bringing his depression back into the equation... well, that does change things a bit. Especially when you say he's not allowed to be alone with the dc. I don't want to pry but I assume something worrying happened in the past to cause this situation.

At the end of the day he is their father, he loves them too, but it's in everyone's interests , especially the dc, that you are both able to work together now and in the future. If he has mental health issues then you are perfectly entitled, indeed have a responsibility to keep your kids safe whilst encouraging a decent relationship with their dad..

It does sound like you are trying to do the best thing. In the long run I think you should be thinking about him having the dc more and it may keep things on an even keel if you suggest you're open to the idea but include some caveats. He needs to deal with his depression, perhaps his parenting style needs to be improved, it needs to be worked up to gradually......

I've been advised that the starting point whenever there is a legal issue around contact is for both parents to be encouraged to get together, probably with a mediator, and discuss all the reasons for and against changes as well as airing any concerns. The courts as much as everyone else are first and foremost going to want you to go away having agreed something (not with one or both of you so upset that more time, money and resources are wasted while kids get caught in the middle).

If you're worried now and have the time/money or are eligible for legal aid, why not suggest that you go to family mediation with him? Also, it stuck me as a bit odd, and I wondered why his g/f is feeling she 'needs' to talk to you and believes that the arrangements will be changing anyway come sept? Does she share PR due to his illness? If not, then you should be able to make your decisions between the two of you as parents, without too much interference from his family. Mediation sounds like it might help though. It's also worth bearing in mind that it would also help your case if he did decide to take a legal route, for you to have offered mediation and clearly be willing to support his relationship with them in a positive way. After all, it's likely to be the first thing a court suggests you both do anyway.

How much is reasonable contact with dad? Well, how much is reasonable contact with mum? The same.

why do they never get enough sleep though?
you cant stop contact over sleep ....
if that is the only issue you all need to sit round a table and discuss bedtimes?

if they going thu to sunday alreadyand granny or gf is managing this then there seeems no legal reason to not have another mid week contact.

sleep issue can be solved by talking together

"avoiding stress" has to be explained tho - what constitutes stress? having two boisterous five year olds could be stressful for some

Thanks everyone, its certainly given me food for thought and as much as I don't like it I think i'm going to allow him an extra night.
MrGin , yes there are other reasons why he can't have them on his own, and i'm actually glad this sanction is in place at the min.

Truthfully, I don't like the fact that they end up with other family members (his side) all the time when they could be spending time with me.

Chocoraisin, i've been trying to get him to agree to mediation for the last month and he's dragging his heels.

Cestlavie.. apparently they do go to bed at 7pm, but gf has a 5 year old too and the 3 kids share one room. They wake up at 5am! And yes, 5 year od twins definately have their moments!