Is this illegal?

[goinglone]

Hi, I have split with my children's father. We are currently living in London and have for years. I want to move 100 miles away. Ex not happy but i can't afford to live in London and I want to move away to the countryside.

My mother just sent me an email suggesting that what I am doing is illegal - moving away from their father.

Is there any truth in this??

Not illegal, but in certain circumstances your ex could gain a court order preventing your move.

It's unlikely, though, if you have a good reason which is in the best interests of your dc.

No. It is not illegal. However, if he objects, he could make an application to the court for an order that stops you moving.

What is your situation now? Are you the primary carer? Is there a contact order?

it is quite rare for the court to interfere with parents who are primary carers who want to move within the UK, provided you are doing it for sensible reasons, not for eg planning a move to the Orkneys where you know nobody.

100 miles is not that far. He can still have contact at weekends and holidays etc. but if the is an existing order and the move will interfere with that, you will need to get the order varied.

If you have got good reasons for the move - job, family, better lifestyle etc then try to get him to understand and agree that it is the best thing. If he won't agree you could consider mediation or he could apply to court.

But it is not illegal to move in the sense the police could be called. If you left the country that could be child abduction, which is a crime. But moving within England and wales is not abduction. However it is always better to involve the other parent with your plans, the court doesn't like it if you act without consulting the other parent.

No not illegal at all unless there is a court order preventing you from doing so.
Your ex can seek a court order in relation to the children. This would most likely involve some form of contact/joint residence and obviously living far away from each other will narrow the options and may make arrangements more complex.
Your ex may also seek a specific issue/prohibited steps order to try to prevent you from moving and force you to stay in London. Obviously I don't know your situ but these applications are usually unsuccessful unless there is some very specific reason for staying in one place (e.g. disability that makes long distance travel very difficult/requires access to medical facilities not in new location etc).

So in summary not illegal unless there is a court order. He can seek one if he wants to, in most cases the result of such an order would be that you could still move but may (both) have a lot of travel to put in arrangements for the children to maintain a good relationship with him.
(with the caveat that that is - of course - not legal advice and that all these things depend on the particular case!)

cross post with Spero with whom I entirely agree.

Sigh. I wish I heard that more often Tess. It is a balm to my soul. I also entirely agree with you.

We are not married, DC are 10 and 7. I am primary carer and he has always stated that he cannot see them during the week because of work commitments. I have said that I will get on the train on a Friday after school and come and meet him in the City (where he works) with the children. He's very much objecting; thinks it's a terrible idea and will be a bad thing for the children to leave their school/friends etc. My eldest child would be changing schools next year anyway and children mostly adapt quite easily. I have found them places in lovely village schools (they won't be in the same school as they have the first/middle/high school system). I have a few friends in the area and the rent for a 3 bed house will be £600pcm opposed to £1,500 where we live now!
I do feel guilty that I am potentially taking my children away but I will do all I can to help ex with hand-over of children.

Very difficult stressful times. Especially now my mother has got involved and is taking sides with ex.

Thanks for replies, very helpful.

There is a good post on Marilyn Stowe (family law blog) about this:

www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2011/04/18/internal-relocation-when-a-parent-wishes-to-move-to-another-part-of-the-uk-what-rules-apply-by-guest-blogger-laura-guillon/

Basically, there are certain tests that apply, and imposing restrictions on where the primary carer lives only happens in exceptional cases. So you're probably fine.

P.S. I am not a lawyer though!

Unless you can afford to pay £1500 out your earnings (or whatever your ex is paying you), I would move. Housing benefit has recently been cut, and is being cut further, so it's unlikely you'd be able to claim the full rent in London, leaving you very poor indeed if you stay put.

You ex cannot stop you (personally) moving and if he can't have the children in the week, then courts are not going to stop you taking them with you.

I think you're right that your kids are not a bad age to move right now (whereas in a few years they will be) - my DD started a new school last year when she was 7 and settled very quickly, and the move up to secondary means friendships all change around anyway.

Sounds like your mum and your ex maybe both need some more reassuring that you do value the DC's relationship with their dad (and their gran?) and will support this through helping with the travelling. Your ex staying in London will give them a chance to keep up with their friends at the weekends anyway, won't it?

I went through this as i was moving with dc to Scotland from Engladn and he took out a prohibitive steps order against us. I had a barrister as I was removing the children from the jurisdiction from English and Welsh courts - I was told i could move from Newcastle to Cornwall without court as long as there was a reason behind it - ie I wasn't doing it out of badness - crossing the border was the problem. I found this very useful and prepared answers and evidence to everything they mentioned on here - saved time and money with my solicitor. Good luck - you'll get there. My barrister quoted European law that it is my right as a cistixen of Europe to live anywhere within the European community and his order was instantly dismissed!! (In a magistrates court). Hope this helps - and good luck x

Thank you very much for your responses. Feel much less worried and a bit less guilty. Purpleroses, yes the children can maintain friendships here as their father will have them most weekends and will still continue with rugby and football clubs, where most of their friends attend.

My heart and head both tell me it's the right thing to do. The village we are moving to is beautiful; a wonderful place to grow up and I know my children will benefit hugely from their new environment. We will also be ok financially. I have not worked since having the children, and if i stayed in London I would have to get some dreadful city job and employ a childminder to make it doable. My new county life means I could manage on the money I will get from my ex along with a part time stress free job that can fit around the children.

Ex is being not very nice regarding finances. He said if I stay in London he will give me 80% equity from the sale of the house, but if I move away, he will only give me the 50% that I am entitled to. He earns about 150k a year, has moved up the career ladder over the past 11 years, whilst I have dedicated my life to the family. I pulled out of university where I was studying primary school teaching, and am now left with little prospects career-wise and will never earn a decent wage. Doesn't seem fair somehow.

He doesn't make that decision - a judge will. I got 90% equity, friends got around 80 - odd % and that was in an English court x
Can you go back and complete your PGCE/BED? I just have as a single mum to 2! You gte funding and it's very intense - takes over your life for 9 mnths but SO worth it x

Were you or your friends married? We were never married, so think this affects the amount I'm entitled to.

I had completed the 1st year of BA (Hons) Primary teaching Studies. I'd have another three years to complete. Not sure I can cope with that! Well done to you, what a fantastic achievement!

yes, all married - but you can do the 3 years - it's def not as intense as the PGCe/PGDE - it just takes some organising and you will get student loans and probably some university funding - ask if you can use your first completed years CATS points so u can start in 2nd year. Have faith in yourself and remid yourself of the long term goal. It is bloody hard and you'll get irritated by young peers moaning about how much they have to do/lack of time when they live at home with everything doen for them while you are bringinf up children (I worked part time too - 2 evenings a week ) but you'll have so much more eoxerience of being with children which is so valuable. Go for it. Don't let him beat you! I've posted about my situation now - facing the summer with NO money as EX has "left his job" and claiming he isn't working but is not claiming benefits - i.e. cash in hand. I now face the prospect of a summer with basic income support, but we'll do it. It's short term and who's the winner?!! I have 2 amazing kids and a job I love - he has what? Your ex will have a nicer house... My kitchen is falling apart - his isn't - but my 2 children eat with me every day. His is fancy but empty x

If you were not married, you can't claim under the Matrimonial Causes Act but you can claim under the children act for a lump sum payment for the benefit of the children. As he is such a high earner, I would think you have a good to argue for more money to house the children, but you can't keep the money once they are adults.

If the CA can't help then the property is divided according to property law only, so if you are a joint legal owners the most likely outcome is a 50 50 split. Also you can't make a claim on any pension unless you were married.

But please see a solicitor. It is massively unfair that you banjax your career opportunities to raise children andhe swans off with huge income.

as non married you can only access his money for the children, not for you.

you will need a combined TOLATA truss of land and childens act claim - under childrens act you could get x amount of his share for the children which would need to be returned to him at given time eg put when youngest finsishes full time education to cover uni.

you will need to research properties in the place you moving to, how much you need etc. presume you would need more in london anyway.

you cant rely on his child maintenance for long term calculations tho -what if he gets made redundant

My ex knew as soon as he left me i would be off with our child. He knew that I never wanted to live where we were and as soon as i got the opportunity i would be back to my hometown. He didnt put up a fight. He can ask the court to stop you but if you present the facts like not being able to afford to live where you are the courts will most probably allow it.