When he's with OW: what/how to tell kids, organise contact, etc.

[BlooMoon]

Long story which I will try to summarise. H is on the verge of leaving. He wants to spend more time with OW. She is childless and lives alone, and wants him to move in with her, although he seems less sure. What IS sure is that our marriage is now beyond repair, so he fancies his chances of happiness to be greater with OW than with us.

I am distraught at the effect this will have on our kids (DD1 - 9 years; DD2 - 9 months), as we have not been in a high conflict household and it will come as a huge shock to DD1. Our marriage was pretty sound before OW came on the scene. But it's been dragging on for nearly a year; I have already done a lot of the grieving for our marriage and am shored up by friends and family and ready for him to go. But I cannot get my head around the fact that I will ultimately have to hand my kids over to the 'care' of the OW, who clearly doesn't give a shit about their best interests, and as far as I'm concerned is selfish, manipulative, and evil personified.

I am trying to find the middle ground between being civil for kids' sake, but not too doormatty for my own sake. We have both agreed that we will try to do this in the least damaging way for the kids. But that's where the problems start... I showed him the child-centred stuff I've been reading, which has in black and white the things I'd been wondering about for ages:
i.e. (paraphrased)
Present the split to kids with minimal blame
Don't introduce new partners until kids have dealt with separation
Definitely don't move straight in with OW; the kids will hate her

And now we are both paralysed with indecision...

I want to keep the kids away from OW for as long as I reasonably can, and am prepared to have H having contact visits in our home, at least initially. (I would go out. There will also be some times when I will be out at work in the evenings and would need a babysitter if H is not willing).

H also seems to think that he can treat the kids differently because of their age gap, (e.g. eventually wants DD1 for overnight contact but not DD2); I disagree and say they need to be treated fairly, therefore they come as a package or not at all, and we will need to find a compromise arrangement for contact that suits both of their needs.

Please help me by sharing your stories of similar situations, and advising me of benefits and pitfalls of particular arrangements.

Bloomoon, don't be too hard on yourself; it's very, very hard to see your dcs go off to spend time with another woman, let alone one who you say is the OW. It's very early days for you and it does get easier.

Zookeeper, I hope you're right. I could do with things getting easier. I am hoping that, once I see DD1 is coping okay, my fear and hatred will turn to pity and indifference. OW has "won" herself a cheat and liar, who manipulates and twists words, who snores, makes nasty smells in the bathroom, and (I have recently discovered) has a bit of a thing for psychologically disturbing rape-themed pornography. Oh, and is already lying to her. What a catch. Whatever did I see in him? He was a good actor for a long long time.

BlooMoon, when you are over the hurt and can see yourself as a person worthy of so much more than your H, you can get to a point where you almost pity OW for having the doubt of him as a partner.

As for trusting again, it's hard, but when you are in an emotionally good place the right man will come. I too thought i had married a good man, but it was not to be.

I draw great strength from the fact that I am a much happier/better person than i ever was when i was with my XH. It's a cliche but time is a great healer!

Bloomoon you clearly are still v hurt. The fact that you describe OW as "childless" and "living alone" almost makes me feel you are jealous of her. It takes two to tango, as they say. She did not "steal" your DH. He chose to be unfaithful to you - you seem unable to quite face this.
However, you need to get over the past and focus on yourself, not your ex, nor his new partner. Hard as it may be, you should try and accept her - after all she is, whether you like it or not, most likely going to play a large part in your DCs lives.

Bloomoon I thought you said you were not coping that well?? I have gone through all the emotions and thoughts that you've been through on here

As you said - The OW will find out soon enough that she hasn't won the grand prize and you will be able to go out and live a little while the DDs are with their dad - My STBX has DD 3 nights and on the nights I got to the gym and out with friends (and dare I say it - I love having time to myself!!! )

If the arrangements don't suit after a while then review them .. nothing is fixed in stone

Kxx

hello... I'm in the same situation in some ways, although my DC are younger (21months, and soon-to-be-born). Personally I've set some very firm boundaries around OW and seeing the children. Which are simply that she doesn't. I popped over to the step parents board for advice actually, which was very helpful, because I didn't know what was normal or right either. And every single person who replied over there said the same thing: Being your XH's new DP does NOT mean that they are your children's SM. The two things are not the same thing. At least, not in the first instance.

I've talked it over with my STBXH and let him know that I don't expect him to involve the OW (who he now lives with, albeit 3 hours from me and the DC) in contact time, because their relationship is still new and untested (he moved in with her, only after I threw him out, which was barely 4 months ago). She is not their step mother yet. IF and when they marry/commit/stand the test of time and he starts to have contact in their shared home, that dynamic will change. But his track record with relationships is dire, and we have both come to a tacit agreement that his sex life is separate from his parenting for now (which absolutely goes for me too). All the step parents I have asked have said much the same thing - shagging a parent doesn't automatically make you a step parent! Stick to your guns if you would like to allow the dust to settle before he involves her. There is absolutely no reason for you to 'have' to accept her as a step parent yet, or for your DC to have to. Accepting that they have a relationship is completely different.

FWIW, I completely accept my STBXH's right to a private relationship with his new GF. What they do is none of my business, and she was the OW before and during my pregnancy so I know exactly how hard that is to come to terms with. All I can say is good luck to her. I don't envy her! But her right to a relationship with my H is not a passport into my kids lives overnight, she needs to respect that our children belong to the two of us and give everyone time to adjust... My H is a prick of the highest order believe me, but even he agreed that if time is going to be a great healer (and if she is to be step-mum in 2, 3 or 10 years time) there is no rush to leap in at the deep end right now. Try talking to your H if you can, and see if there might be a compromise you can all reach for the time being. I don't think YABU at all to ask for respectful patience in the meantime.

Cocoraisen, I remember your thread and I think that the advice was so overwhelmingly towards the ow not gaining stepmother rights because of the fact you are pregnant and baby will be a new born... In the case of op, one of her children is 9 so whereas I agree that the relationship should be more secure before any "rights" or "stepmum" tags are bandied about- I don't honk that contact would be anywhere near as damaging.

Honk? Tee hee "think"

I guess so, I did take the advice rather to heart :) still I don't think its a bad idea for everyone to have breathing space for a little while when the new relationship started off as an OW... after all its a big leap for them to make from affair to blended family, and the stats are against it working if nothing else. And its really really upsetting for op (clearly my empathy though is in overdrive!) So its less likely that she'll pass on those feelings to her dd if xh allows her time to come to terms with it first? sigh I just don't see the rush as necessary really, but I know from experience that life is rarely as simple as sitting down over a to reach a friendly understanding. Good luck OP I really feel for you x

So do I, my ex cheated when dd was 11 months. He didn't continue the relationship but I can imagine how I would have felt as was upset enough as it was. Good luck all, and better rid if these rat bags now! My ex actually makes a really good dad, at least as far as dd is considered. And his new partner is a great sm.

God life is complicated isn't it? So glad your x has stepped up as a dad wickedest, its good to know ppl get past the bs and move on! I second well rid of the ratbags

Sorry for the slow replies - find it difficult to find private time to respond, especially over the weekend. He's not left yet. Every time I give him a little push, he bounces back, as if he's on a piece of elastic or something...

Stacey - glad you are feeling better about yourself, and look forward to joining you at some point, but it all feels rather a long way away at the moment.

Ladydeedy - the "childless, living alone" thing was just to set the scene. I'm not at all jealous of that; the opposite, if anything. But it makes it difficult for me to work out her motives (if any). She came out of a long term relationship shortly after the affair started. I don't know whether a) they tried to have kids and couldn't; b) she wanted kids and her ex didn't; or c) neither wanted kids. If it's (c), I'm worried she doesn't like kids and make things difficult for them. But if it's (a) or (b) I'm concerned that part of the attraction for my husband is that he comes with a ready-made family. Although arguably this outcome is better for the kids. I think your words are wise, but you are quite correct - I am unable to face any of this just now. I cannot bear the thought of her playing a large part in my DCs' lives.

Kirsty - thanks - it helps to know that the thoughts and emotions are at least common, even normal. Yes, I need to remember that things will change and evolve. I just hope that I'll be able to steer things a little, as I feel very out of control really.

Choco - I lurked intermittently on your thread and have your bearhunt bookmarked! I hear you on the "new, untested" relationship thing - I really want to protect my DCs from further fuckwittery and rejection. I'll try to find your post on the step parents board. Sometimes I wish I'd done what you did and turfed him out right at the beginning, but it was just such an awful time - I went into labour (prematurely) the week after I confronted him, and after that I just focused on the baby and buried my head in the sand where some might say it still is tbh. But at least by doing things this way, I've had nearly a year of little one without OW getting her mitts on her. And maybe I'll feel less precious about the whole thing once I am back at work and DD2 has started at nursery anyway. I will try speaking sensibly to H (once he actually goes) and try to get him to understand that while I'm still so raw, him rushing in is just likely to damage things even more. I know what he'll say. He'll say I'll just have to deal with it and hide my feelngs "for the sake of the children". That's what I've had for months and months now.

Wickedest - yep, ratbag just about sums him up. but rather mild for my taste

Her motives may have nothing to do with children. She may not want them (doesnt mean she wont be nice to yours). She may be indifferent. She may want them. You dont know, and her views may change over time, so there's really no point in worrying about what her "motives" may or may not be. Not many women find the prospect of a man with a "ready made family" appealing, I would suggest. My DH happened to have them already when I met him so it was part of the deal, not something that attracted me to him. Kids just may not feature for her, if you know what I mean. What's more important is your ex's attitude to the children.

I agree with ladydeedy, it would be an extremely odd individual who actively sought to take on a ready made family. It's pretty thankless.

I do know someone who couldn't have kids and was actively seeking a ready made family so not that odd I'd have thought

That person has no idea ... said wickedsm grimly.

I just want to offer you some hugs because my heart goes out to you. I know the pain you must be feeling.

Its not unheard of for people to try and steal other peoples families. Remember the ow is actually likely to be jealous of you op- you have the history and tie of children together so she may well want to gain some control.

Remember the ow is actually likely to be jealous of you op- you have the history and tie of children together so she may well want to gain some control.

Terrified, maybe - my DP and his ex were divorced when we got together, but she still scares me
Not so sure about gaining control - although I have totally irrationally felt threatened by my DD's SM on occasion, I don't think she is trying to take over in any way.
I know that as a SM, control is the last thing on my mind, I'd just like to be able to get on and live my own life - sometimes with just DP and sometimes with DD and DSC too!

As a SM, I do resent interference from DSC mum while they are in DP's care, though - if DP's ex has an issue with things that happen with the DSC while they are with us, I would far rather she dealt with it directly with him, without involving me - rather than phone the DSC up and tell them what to say to me, or how to behave towards me. Oh, and DSS doesn't need to know that his favourite movie is on TV in 10 minutes, or that a parcel has arrived addressed to him - it can wait until he gets back!

You say you dont want to control then in the next sentence you dont want his own mother to call him about a parcel arriving!

You say you dont want to control then in the next sentence you dont want his own mother to call him about a parcel arriving!

How is that controlling? Surely it is reasonable for DC's to have space and time to enjoy time with their NRP, rather than receiving continual updates about what they are missing out on with their RP?

DSS was very upset for the rest of the time with DP when his mum called to say that his toy order had arrived from Amazon, DSD walked out on contact time with DP when her mum told her over the phone that she had brought a kitten home, and I try not to remember the time the day she called specifically to tell DSS that his favourite movie was starting on TV in 10 minutes.....we don't have a TV.

Of course, DP could do the same, and call every day about what the DC's would have been doing with us if they'd been here, if you think she's appreciate it.....but I know that as a Mum, I hate it when my exH does that to DD

Oh I see where your coming from... I thought you just meant the odd call with an important update.

hey bloo the thread was called "I have no idea what is normal or right" if that helps? Sorry I've not linked, I'm keeping an eye on dinner at the same time.

I'm glad you're following the bearhunt!! It makes me feel so much more positive when I realise I'm not alone despite not wishing this all on my worst enemy, of course... FWIW I don't think it's easy at any stage to cut your losses and leave a relationship when you've made commitments and had kids btw. I don't regret ending it with my H, but I do hate the details of what me and the DCs are now going through. It's shit and awful a lot of the time, but I know we'll get through it and god bless MN for giving me somewhere to rant/cry/moan/let it all out.

If it's helping, keep posting and we'll be sticking around with (hopefully) a voice of reason or some hand holding - or whatever you need at the time. x

I think you're all right. I need to stop worrying about her motives. Whatever they may be, I can't change them, and I've got enough else to worry about...

Starwisher - she bloody well should be jealous of me. I am fab . Not to mention modest . And yes, NADM, she should definitely be terrified. Mwahahahaha. sorry, feeling slightly insane today

I think should be able to leave the DDs well alone when they are in H's care. I have no desire to interfere to that extent. He's good with them. And I'll be far too busy doing other stuff, I hope.

Choc - I found that thread, thanks - 'twas some pretty powerful advice you got there. I guess it's slightly different because you're still pregnant and your H has gone already. But I so so understand the overwhelming need to protect the little one, and hold onto them as tightly as you can, and my heart goes out to you.

I asked my ex to wait until DS 2.5 had got used to the idea that his daddy no longer lived with us. He is young I know but I didn't want him being confused seeing his dad being with me and then straight away with OW. When I think it had sunk in I then started mentioning that daddy had a girlfriend now blah blah. This happened over 6 months and last week I asked him if he wanted to meet daddy's girlfriend and he said yes and they met for the first time on Sunday. I think it went well and he doesn't seem bothered by it.

I did say it all through gritted teeth and a fake sodding smile and did want to wash my DS when he came back as I couldn't stand the thought of OW touching him....irrational I know! It is an awful feeling that someone so lacking in morals and clearly lack the ability to understand family values is looking after my DS.

Not irrational at all! Sometimes when baby DD has been cuddled by friends I can smell their perfume on her, in her hair. And I know that when H was coming home from work (during the time he was allegedly "working at the marriage"), I could smell OW's perfume on him. Yuk. So I foresee a pleasant routine of regular bathtime following daddy's contact time.

Anyway, it sounds like you handled things beautifully and in a very dignified way, and I understand completely about the gritted teeth and the fake sodding smile.