Visitation rights for ex who is abroad with work question - help!

[Orbinator]

After catching him out on a lie about contacting CSA, ex now says he won't go to Court for visitation rights as "There's no way that I can commit to once a week visits. Not with my job. It's also not what I would want anyway". He won't clarify what he DOES want...other than to see her on his terms as and when with no structure. Anyone have experience on how the visiting access is organised by the Court? He is off for a month to China and was in Las Vegas the last 2 weeks...but then he may be back after that for 2 whole months. It's quite sporadic. How would a Court be likely to handle this? I can only imagine they will set a certain number of hours every month? How could I police that, in that he won't try to jam them in to 2 days and make it awkward if he wants the rest of the month off?

Has anyone had experience of this or can advise how to proceed? Am going to CAB next week to arrange legal help and get their advice, but that was the only appointment I could get and drop in is too hard with an 8 month old!

Thanks in advance.

Visitation?
You visit a prison - you do not visit with your children.

I would look at it by getting a work abroad schedule and then ensuring the children spend time with father when he is in the uk. Regular contact as much as possible then so that they are still able to build a full and meaningful relationship with their father despite his work commitments. B

Sorry, that's what he has been calling it.

He doesn't have a schedule up until about 2 weeks before or later in some cases.

He has been difficult in the past to tie down to times and dates, which is why I feel the need to take this to Court. Even when he is in the country he has trouble - was 4 hours late last time we tried to do it without.

Ah sorry..... Court would work a schedule around his work.... This may mean that his work will have to make reasonable adjustments.... Or that contact is arrange with contingency for work commitments but if it's that he is just making excuses then not sure what you can do....

Court can't make him stick to schedule - wouldn't mediation be better?

visitation is an american word I think.

If the nature of his work is that his schedule means frequent travel abroad and he probably doesnt know hiimself until a couple of weeks beforehand, I think you have to live with that and work around it as best you can. It would be the same if you were still together, the child would see his/her dad when he was back in the UK, but it wouldnt be on a regular basis. That would be the commonsense approach in my view. You cant impose or request a regular one night a week or every other weekend scenario if that's simply not possible. You're almost setting it up for confrontation.

Trouble is unless it is enforced he messes us around. I feel it's the only way forward. I'd prefer not to see him at all as he is very derogatory to me and we struggle to be civil, sadly. I've tried explaining that we don't have to have a relationship for him to see DD but he can't seem to get his head around that.

It's in no way ideal but for my sanity I have to hold him at arms length.

A court can't enforce it though - you can get an agreement about where and when, but if he doesn't turn up when he's supposed to there's bugger all a court can actually do.

Ah well. It looks as though he's opting out of maintenance anyway from an email today - may be a long way off access arrangements :(

Are you making a connection between access and maintenance?

Court can enforce maintenacne though!

Titchy - I think this is why he's walking away from it all. He only wants to see her on his terms, and that doesn't involve maintenance at all.

I've been advised to sort out CSA before access so that he is registered as father - not on BC. So the two seem to have to be linked to an extent...

...and he's being advised to sort out the contact. If he chose to take this to court, they wont deal with maintenance, only residence, contact and the welfare of the child.
The CSA/CMEC enforce maintenance.

Yes I understand that. To be honest anything is better than the current nothing for either in my book!

The point I was making, is you cant withold contact because of maintenance or lack thereof...

If he's not on the BC he may try to prolong it all by denying he's the father.

I can't do much if he's not in the country though, can I?

Would you think it better he gets to know her for maybe one day a month, if that is indeed possible, and pays nothing for her upkeep? I don't really know why he would pay maintenance if he gets everything on his terms anyway. He'd be an idiot as far as he sees it!
For the record, that's what I was doing up until last month, and surprisingly he hadn't bothered trying to sort out maintenance or CSA at all. Now I have done it he suddenly has backed off.

He is deliberately trying to ensure he stays in control of your life by insisting on being in control of when he sees the children. You must not accept this.

Access arrangements are not about his "right" to see the children, but about your children's right to have a meaningful relationship with both parents if possible. The children have to come first and they need structure and reliability more urgently - a chaotic "when I have time" system is not in their best interests and neither you nor any court could reasonably agree to it.

What would be reasonable would be to agree to a pattern which he can stick to when he is in the country and not when he isn't. E.G. (if this would work for you) Saturday 10am to Sunday 4pm on alternate weekends if and only if he has confirmed that he will be able to take up the oportunity at least 10 days previously (i.e. the wednesday of the previous week). The weekends which are "yours" are sacrosanct and he can't have access on those weekends even if he is in the country, and the ones which are "his" he can take or leave depending on his other commitments.

You must insist on something like this so that you have the ability to make plans on "your" weekends that you know won't get disrupted, so that your children have a reasonable amount of warning to know where they are going to be, and so that you have enough time to make alternative plans if he is going to be abroad - it would be very bad for their self esteem and development to have plans suddenly changing without warning and therefore you must include in the arrangement an understanding that the system will have to change if he makes a habit of mucking them about.

That sounds more reasonable and what I was hoping to do. I've tried this before, just us arranging it, as I said it didn't work at all. He sometimes would decide on a day he would "pop over" to see us when I had other plans and refuses to take her on his own. Obviously this means I can't do anything with the only free time I might actually get out of it. Also it makes me think he wants to know what I am up to, when I have no desire to know about him. It never feels as if it is about seeing his DD.

Granted she is too young to know who he is (due to sporadic and next to no contact in the last two months and not my choice) but I am worried that he prides himself on never planning anything. None of it bodes very well and I'm quite tired of trying to sort it out alone :(

Stay strong then, you need to be firm with him and make it clear to him that you will not be allowing him to be a source of chaos and unpredictabity in either DDs life or your own. Good luck!

What do you mean by "on his terms" and he "messes you around" - what does that really mean?

If it means he'd like to see her when he is in the country and not on a fixed rigid schedule which may suit you, but which he cant possibly comply with, then you'll need some flexiblity if daughter and father are going to spend some meaningful time together and build a relationship for the future.
I think you need to think what outcome you'd like really, for your daughter, for the longer term.

He currently lives in UK, so CSA will be fine. I strongly suspect he will now ask to be posted abroad though to avoid it, so that link is great, thank you!

By messes us about I mean turning up hours late - 4 hrs last time, as I said. Turning up drunk. Expecting me to stay with him while he has her. Changing dates on the day he previously said he would come down...those have all happened.

On his terms - he has said he won't rent a B&B nearby because she will see him as a sad old man and therefore he must see her at my house. (He lives an hour away by train.) I see that as keeping tabs and wanting me to clear up his mess and feed him after every visit. I don't see why I should have to have him in my house for hours. He should be able to plan something to do with her.

You are definitely right there - you absolutely shouldn't agree to having the visits in your house. The visits are between him and her and you should not be forced to spend time with your ex, and you certainly shouldn't be expected to feed and clean up after him, and he doesn't have the right to pry into your private life by coming into your home against your will. Just say no!

He absolutely must identify a place he is happy to spend time with her that is not your house (a family-friendly attraction perhaps?) - would it work for you all to meet there? Ideally it should be somewhere that you can enjoy with her if he is massively late, so that your DD can have a fun day at the (farm/park/museum/etc) with you if dad doesn't bother to show up - and if he does turn up on time, somewhere that you can leave from and have some "me time" before collecting her again at the end of the visit.

Can you arrange for something to be happening at your house co-inciding with his next visit such that he can't possibly be there and has no option but to take her away? Book-club meeting? Electricity rewiring?

I don't normally jump in on these threads because I'm in such early days with contact arrangments myself (ex left 3 months ago) but it always surprises me how much some posters seem to think a RP should put up with and 'be flexible' about for the sake of their children having a relationship with NRP. I don't think you sound unreasonable or nasty, or like you expect too much. You clearly aren't obstructing a relationship between the two of them, and in fact would like him to see her more, and on his own. I don't get why you'd be criticised for wanting a routine for your DD and your benefit?

The legal position (as my solicitor has told me) is that any child has a right to a positive relationship with their NRP. If you do not obstruct that as RP, you are doing your job. It's not your job though to be the one who creates that relationship. Your home should not have an open door policy for your ex, and it is the NRP's job to commit to regular, meaningful contact all by themselves which you are then obliged to facilitate.

If that means every other weekend, fine. If it means 3x tea-time visits every week, fine. It's up to you both to agree a schedule, and for him to follow through on those commitments surely? If he can't be arsed to show up one week and then expects to be able to walk into your home the next, he is being disrespectful and hurtful towards his child and to you. You are not meant to just put up with that in the name of being 'flexible'.

If I were you I would agree a schedule (such as one day at the weekend and a mid week visit, or every other weekend as a previous poster said) and expect that to be what happens whenever he is in the country. IF he's out of the country on work, he just needs to give you as much notice as he has - ie, a fortnight in advance - that he won't be there. When he gets back, the schedule picks up where it was left off, not when he feels like it.

Don't doubt yourself OP - You are not responsible for his relationship with his DD, he is. Don't let him manipulate you any more. But be aware that a court's first recommendation will be mediation, not issuing an order, so I'd explore that as an option. The courts take a pretty dim view of parents who refuse it (except in the case of domestic violence).