another dd not wanting to visit her dad querie

[MagicHouse]

This is a little like the other thread. My dd (nearly 6) seems very unhappy about visiting her dad. Our split was very acrimonious though, and part of it was about his parenting, which can be very impatient, controlling and lacking in understanding about little children. Just before we split, the way he used to speak to her upset me a lot the time - he could be very bullying.
My dd has frequent nightmares (pretty much every night, in which she either cries in her sleep, or wakes running to and crying for me.) She told me last night that in her nightmares, she always wants me, but I'm not there. She says in her nightmares she is at her daddy's, but that she "doesn't want to tell me" what they are about. She is always unhappy about going to her dad's, although she has stopped crying on leaving me. She never says he is horrible to her or anything like that - just says that she doesn't want to go. if I ask her why, she either says she doesn't want to talk about it, or that she wants to stay with me.
Exh will always tell me she is fine (never wakes at night there apparently, even though it's pretty much every night here that she's in tears/ that with him she always has a "great" time and that she and her little brother have been "fantastic" - with me they are like all children - laughter/bickering/ normal ups and downs). He is very competitive though, and it would be very important to him to present an image of himself as a great father, rather than raise any difficulties.
He lives with friends, and takes our dc to various of his friends/ relatives in which they all share one room whenever and wherever they stay with him. It's probably quite exhausting for her, as here she loves to spend time in her room on her own playing with her toys or reading.
I know it's not all bad, and occasionally she is quite animated about things they have done.
I'm not really sure how to handle this situation at all. I want to do the best thing for her. But I don't know what that is. I don't want to say "it will be lovely at Daddy's" when I remember what he was like in the weeks before we split (daily telling her she was naughty/ clumsy/ shouting at her). The reality is I don't know how things are between them now - she doesn't say anything specifically negative about him, but has nightmares and doesn't want to visit, and he tells me she is absolutely fine. He is a strange character - he can be very affectionate, but the flipside is an aggressive, manipulative bully. He is also very controlling. Leaving him has been like a great weight has lifted from me, and made me realise how much my confidence and self esteem had been chipped away. Knowing this doesn't reassure me when it comes to dealing with my dd's nightmares and upset.
Does anyone have any advice - even if it's pointing me in the direction of anyone/ anywhere I could talk this through?

I'm not sure what the rules are with this, it seems to be a grey zone for parents. My DS (5) is always happy to visit his dad, but I think if he was adamant that he didn't want to go, it would be down to him, not dad.
But in the same breath, I know his dad would be devastated if DS didn't want to see him.

If you try asking again what happens while DD's there, make sure she knows that she won't get in trouble and that you want to know so you can help her, and fix the problem. Make sure she understands that telling you what's wrong is the right thing to do.

I can't find much online about these kinds of issues, but this link might be of some help: www.advice-for-parents.com/2008/06/when-your-kids-dont-want-to-see-their.html

I hope you manage to resolve the issue soon :) best of luck!

Hi, not an unsimilar situation here, its very awkward as I find I don't want to encourage her to go or not if she doesn't want to but you are in the middle of everyone's feelings. My dd doesn't have a specific reason for not wanting to go either so I can't really advise, just another one in the same situation. The only compromise that I have found is to pack her things, let her go for the day with dad and then she can decide if she wants to stay once she's with him - I always tell him she's not sure and can she ring me or I give her a quick call. It's really difficult not to undermine dad but also to let DD know she can make that decision and no-one will be upset, it's her decision. I do end up with the situation where DS is then staying but DS comes home, which I didn't really want, but i'm hoping it'll naturally sort itself out as they get more accustomed to the situation.

I'm surprised it's a grey area tbh - if there's no risk of abuse or harm - why wouldn't they go?
I assume that they don't have the same choice about whether or not to go to school? Isn't a relationship with their Dad more important than that?

It's not up to DCs to decide what they need, or is good for them in long term - that's their parents job

On a practical basis - my DD pulled this once or twice and it turned out that she was struggling to sleep at her Dads because her room was too hot. Never, despite sobs and tears, did I consider it appropriate to allow her to choose whether or not to go - what a HUGE responsibility to give a young child

it is not as easy as that for many children notadisneymum, from the OP it sounds like it may be in the childs best interest to have some choice over this. A relationship with the absent parent is not always more important than the childs happiness, the little girl is having nightmares and has some very real issues. seperation anixiety should be worked with and not just accepted as a must, also sounds like there are some attachment problems between the child and her dad, as is probably the case with my dd, that also needs to be worked on sensitivly.

OP from you describe I would not send dd with the option to decide once there if she is staying, as sounds like exp may put some preasure on to persuade her to stay when she really does not want to. Luckily for me I have had some support on here this weekend on dealing with this and exp was very very receptive and I have worked out how best to communicate with him on this as he is very open to us working together on this. But I think you should allow your dd to decide on no over nights for a while. Do you think exp will be accepting of this just to see if the nightmares etc stop or the anxiety lessens?

Yet again NDisneyMum is the voice of reason and sense...absent parent - not sure what defines one, but doesn't sound like the father is absent in this childs life...

I have 2 DDs who are nearly 5 and 6, their Dad left 4 years ago. They have never really it seems enjoyed overnights, we have a pattern of them staying overnight every other weekend for a few months so only 5 or 6 times at the most, and then saying they do not want to go at all the next weekend. It seems that they do not enjoy staying, and the eldest has explained that she asks to come home at night, then again first thing in the morning and they are always told no they can't. So the result is they then say they don't want to go at all.

I have tried talking to him about this over and over again, about perhaps making there room more homely etc etc, but he just tells me not to dictate to him, then one minute he tells them he won't force them to go and the next he says he will have no choice but to physically put them in the car the next time?! So when they say they don't want to go, I then manage to convince them to go just for the day the next time, then when they are there he tells them how much he misses them and that he really wants them to stay, so they then say they want to stay again. So they stay and then a few visits later they say they don't want to go at all again as they didn't really want to stay just that Daddy convinced them to stay but they then asked to come home again but he said no. This has gone round and round many times now.

So after the last time this happened I said they are coming for the day only and that is that. He is not happy but actually the girls are.

Obviously this will be reviewed again but not in a few weeks like he seems to think is ok, but in many months time, as I think they need to be consistently happy with it, even now the eldest says she doesn't want to go sometimes but she will go and then as it is just the day and she knows she is coming home she seems to find more security in that and so can be persuaded to go without crying.

This is a sensitive area and I would urge you to listen to your DD, though avoid any knee-jerk reactions. It may be a phase that passes that she'll grow out of or there may be a greater underlying resentment building. My DS used to see his dad regularly and then when he was 9 he rang me after 1 day of a 7 day visit in floods of tears asking to be collected. He has refused to go back since (this was 18 months ago) and his relationship with his dad has now broken down completely (despite counselling). When asked he just says he just doesn't want to be there and that he'd told me beforehand that he didn't want to go and I hadn't listened (which is true). His dad is also a subtley emotionally controlling person though I have no doubt that he adores his son. It's a sad situation but all professional advice is to listen to DS as he's old enough to know his mind.

I think until you can get to the bottom of what is causing the nightmares/anxiety, it's a tough call on what the right thing to do here is. It might be best to try and get advice or read up on how to talk to your DD or get her to open up a little. My 6yr old DD tends to say to me that she doesn't want to talk to me about something when she thinks she'll end up in trouble. It's a tricky thing to get her to tell me about something that worries her, or makes her feel sad/unsettled. Your ex might well have been short/bad tempered/bullying in tone when you were together but maybe he's also feeling less stressed since the split? It could be how he treats her/speaks to her, but equally it could be something that she thinks will get her into trouble but in reality is pretty insignificant. If it is down to separation anxiety from you, lots of reassurance about when she will see you again, can talk to you when she wants/needs to, and making sure she knows that you are always there for her no matter where she is.

When I split from my ex, he had a great relationship with our DD but she was still very reluctant to see him/spend time with him at his new home. It took me spending time with her, at his, to help her feel more settled/less anxious. She was never in the situation of not wanting to see her dad, only that she didn't want to leave me. If your relationship with your ex doesn't allow you to help your DD in that way, then I think your best option is to try and help her develop a way to communicate better what her worries are, so you can at least figure out the best way to deal with whatever the problem is. If you can get her to open up a little about say 1 thing she worries about, then it's a good opportunity for you to talk to her about how to deal with that, work her way through it and find a way to cope. I do this with my DD when she talks about someone who has said or done something mean to her at school. Sometimes she has a genuine gripe, and we talk about why it was said/done, what she can do about it if it happens again, and how to move on from it once it's been sorted (so that she doesn't dwell on it). Other times, she's just looking for a bit of attention so has a tendency to embellish things a little so she gets sympathy/attention. Again, it's tricky not to jump to the wrong conclusion, or make the wrong choice in how to deal with it. Maybe speak to her school, and see if she has said anything to them, or her friends - maybe their mum could see if anything has been said.

Good luck with things, I hope you get to the bottom of it, and are able to help your DD with whatever is causing her such worry.

Sadly a break up is likely to be hardest on the dc as they're the innocent party in the middle.

If it acrimonous it's likely to affect them deeply and for years.

If you're not going to allow the dc to sleep at the nrp's are you then willing to allow the nrp to spend days on end with dc at your home ? Or consign them to roaming around outside in all weather ? Or just stop contact ?

There is no ideal solution.

I do sympathyse with the OP, but if the dc isn't at risk at dad's unfortunatly I don't see what you can do other than hope dad modifies his behaviour for the sake of his child.

I'm coming at this from the other side.

Despite being a gentle , loving and empathic human and dad my XP was very much against dd staying with me. I was accused of all kinds of stuff.

It was 'outragous' that dd should stay with me. And despite only proposing ( in her eyes 'demanding' ) alt weekends and a weekly visit, she went from solicitor to solicitor I guess hoping to find one who agreed with her. She didn't.

Eventually she had to agree but felt I'd bullied her into agreement. I just bite my Tongue and get on with loving dd.

Hand over, and her attitude at times to dd being at mine can be problematic.

Dd does of course love her mum, and to shorten a long story, if XP is around dd has on occassion been reluctant to leave home, egged on by XP, if XP isn't around it's the oppersite , she'll be enthusiastically asking me what toys to bring and where my car is.

And in my case I recognize that dd has split loyalties.

I could rabbit on all night about details and things that have happened. But essentialy I think you have to be as positive as you can and certainly not give a child that young a choice in the matter.

It was paramount to me to make dd feel safe, secure and happy in my home. A lot was common sense, but being dad and not involved in mums groups and dd's day to day stuff I had a few hills to climb and even now after a year I have very little in the way of support. You don't tend to get nrp play groups, and unless you have friends with same aged children it's very hard to get involved in chilrens groups let alone mums groups.

I think a lot of men do find some aspects of parenting isn't first nature, and I can understand an RP's anxiousness .

But like I said. It's not an ideal situation. You had a child together and now you're apart. If there's no risk you shouldn't stop contact or overnights. You can attempt or hope the nrp listens to suggestions but little else IMO.

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I don't think stopping overnight contact is the answer while I don't know what the problem is. Exh would never agree to that anyway. I also think she is too little to make that choice herself at the moment but as she gets older I would definitely consider that.

It's difficult because I don't want to dismiss her worries if she has genuine concerns. How he used to be with her did worry me a great deal, so I will always be monitoring how things seem to be for that reason. I hope our split has been a wake up call for him and that he is making more of an effort now.

I like the idea bananistheanswer of lots of reassurance about when she will see me again - I did this a lot when we first split, but haven't done it so much recently. I also like the idea of asking her to tell me one thing about what's worrying her.

I think I also need to speak to him about setting up a proper home for them, with their own rooms with books and toys etc. I'm not sure why he isn't doing this.

MrGin our split was acrimonious, but I sort of hope we managed to hide most of that from the dc. If she's upset on leaving me I just hug her and say I'll see her the next day/ Sunday etc. I never say anything negative about him to her. (But I do think it! the trouble is, children pick up on so much)

Thanks again for all the support everyone.

Magic, it just occurred to me that a good book for you and your DD to read is this - it might help you give your DD a way to open up about what is worrying her, and the idea that she can talk to someone i.e. you, a grandparent, teacher or whoever she's comfortable with. I think making that 1st step to get to the bottom of what is troubling her is the best way forward. Good luck.

Thanks banana - I do know that book, that's a lovely idea to read that with her. Thanks for all your advice.

I have a similar situation with my 2yo dd who wants to see her dad but REALLY doesn't want to stay at his house (2 hours away.) He doesn't have the confidence or will to make it work with her so I have quickly realised that I'm not doing any of us any good by shoe-horning him into a role he's simply not up to fulfilling. The thing is, you cannot offer blanket advice. Everyone is different and, while common sense tells you not to allow a child to 'manipulate' a situation, if you feel her dad isn't up to the job of being a gentle caring father (such as Mr Gin) then you're right to take your daughter's worries seriously. Sadly not everyone is a reasonable, healthy, functioning adult, capable of parenting well and it's the rp's job to protect when necessary. It can be very complicated and all relationships/separations are unique. Thanks for the book tip - looks great.