advice re parental agreement about contact when children moving to another town.

[SamsGoldilocks]

A friend's children are moving to another city, about an hour and a half away, in the next couple of months and this will obviously impact on their contact with their children - currently they can pick them up and take them to school one day a week and see them for one overnight at the weekends.

When parents are being nice to one another (no abuse or awful break up situation here) what are kind of normal arrangements for contact? What do you do about birthdays, school holidays, Christmas, family birthdays, children doing after school clubs/weekend clubs. My friend is gutted about them moving and wants to be as involved as possible given the situation but can't move to be near them.

I may not be able to follow this much this evening but would be really grateful for any advice/experience. Thanks.

I live about the same distance from my dd and her mum.

The most common scenario is the NRP having dc alternate weekends and splitting the holidays. This is the arrangement I have.

My dd is yet to go to school so where possible I try and extend 'my' weekends by taking a Friday or Monday off.

I also negotiated flexible work hours so that I can see dd in the week I don't have her.

Birthdays... well for me I understand that dd will want to see her friends so even if it fell on my weekend I'd visit her mums.

Christmas and the like are alternate years.

If the parents get on it's much better for everybody, it means one can remain flexible and shift days when needed.

For me, as dd is not at school ( so no fixed holidays ) I told XP I'm happy to organize my payed leave to suit her work / illness / whatever. This works reasonably well.

that sounds pretty much what my friend is hoping for, although Christmas is currently a sticking point.

Well I think it's perfectly reasonable to do alternate Christmas, splitting the day sounds too much hassle and un-rest. All spending the day together...... dodgy even in non-separated families :o

I think flexibility comes into it again....

I'm personally not bothered about if I celebrate with dd and my family on boxing day or Xmas we still enjoy it together.

Impotant thing is to resolve . I'd imagine a court would suggest alternate Xmas anyway....

Re Christmas, Mr Gin, do you feel alternate Christmas could work for young children in a scenario where the NRP lives a long way away - ie a flight plus long car drive distance - & the DC have never spent time at their place, so it is a completely unfamiliar setting.
Where I live the courts generally favour the children being with the Primary Carer for Christmas Eve & Day, and then going with the NRP either Christmas Evening (if that works logistically) or Boxing Day for a few days holiday.

Welll..... I'm not an expert you understand :)

I think any unfamiliar setting would need to be handled with kid gloves, I'd guess it would also depend on how familiar the dc is with the person who lived in the unfamiliar place..... that all needs to be worked up to.

I think the thing is here, that if there is a long journey involving planes and driving, the dc isn't just going to pop there for a day. It wouldn't make sense. It'd likely be a week long ( or so ) visit I imagine. And given that that journey is likely to be made anyway even if it's not Christmas then I don't see it being done over Christmas as an obstacle TBH.

There are always mitigating circumstance, again I think staying on good terms where possible is important.

I'll give you an example. Me ! :)

My XP's mother is very frail and lives near to my XP and DD. As such I understand that it means a lot to XP and X-MIL for them to spend Christmas at XP's together with DD. So I'm happy at the moment to agree to that. Much as I dislike my XP's mother I don't want to deprive her of Christmas with her grandaughter, even if I don't see her on Christmas day.

But by that token, and without any conflict my XP is more amenable to DD then spending a decent amount of time ( i.e. a week ) at mine straight after Christmas. Give and take.

I think when DD is older it might become alternate Christmas, but I'm not religious, dd doesn't really understand Christmas yet so it doesn't make much difference which day I see her.

I think where possible it's only fair to swap Christmas every year.

Thanks Mr Gin. Unfortunately, whilst you seem to be a very reasonable person, my Ex is the complete opposite & it's more about his 'rights' as opposed to his responsibilities to the welfare of his DC. The Christmas Day scenario is a massive struggle in my head - simply because DC have such a big family network here with me & are very close to my parents, etc, that to bring them away from what is very familiar & comfortable to them on this big day feels fundamentally wrong. We are also religious & DC are being raised within our faith.
I feel that maybe when they are older, they will be better able to make a choice about where they want to spend it, but until then I just want them to feel secure.

I share custody of my kids with my ex. He is all kinds of a twat.

But it isn't about me or what I want. It's about the kids. And if I kept them all Christmas every Christmas then they would never learn what his family Christmases were like.

Rubin - I understand why you feel the way you do but I couldn't and wouldn't and haven't done that with my DC's.

Christmas Day and Boxing Day alternate in our situation.

I think alternate christmases is fairest if possible. As for spending in familiar surroundings, we have only once spent Christmas at home as we usually visit relatives for Christmas so that doesn't feel like a big issue to me. Having said that, so much depends on individual children's circumstances and personalities I guess...

I understand what you're saying, but my struggle is not about myself either. Its about what I feel is best for the children. So whatever decision I come to won't be a case of what I've done to my DC, but a case of what I feel is best for them.
Every case is an individual one & as lilbreeze says so much depends on the childrens' circumstances, etc.

I agree with you that it's what is best for the children, but it's not just what you think is best for the children iyswim?

In my case, my ex believes in raising the children in his religion. I do not. If we went with what he or I thought was best for them they would not be exposed to the views of the other parent and that parent would have their role in the childrens' lives diminished as a result. Do you see what I mean?

And it feels fundamentally wrong to you to take the children away from your family - that is excluding your ex and his family.

And I do understand about dealing with an ex and how difficult it is. And I'm not for one second judging you, just trying to put forward an alternative viewpoint.

Unfortunately, he has been given loads of opportunities to get his family involved but doesn't take them. I have never tried to exclude them, in fact the opposite, so don't feel I can be accused of taking them away from him or his family at Christmas.

But you said in your other post that it felt wrong to you to take them away from your family at Christmas?

Yes, because its a big day for them & I want them to feel they are sharing it with family they are close to & in an environment they are familiar to. That doesn't mean that they are not close to their father. It's more about sending them to the other side of the country into unfamiliar surroundings.
I don't expect you to understand my feelings, I'm just being honest about my struggle with it all.

But by keeping them with you then it will always be unfamiliar - it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I understand that you're trying and that from reading your situation your ex doesn't want to be bothered.

Really not trying to be judgey or have a go.

I disagree with your note on a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the unfamiliarity is not just a Christmas issue, but has come about largely from circumstantial issues. But I will keep thinking about it all & understand concerns you have raised.

I understand that in your specific case, as I said in my previous post, your ex doesn't want to be bothered, but your initial post, which was all around having your family near and a religious element had a slightly different feel to it.

The thing is, it's hard - you can't make them be interested, and nor can you make them parent in the way you do - one of the the hardest things (I think) is letting the kids go into an environment that isn't how you would do it iyswim?

I think the thing is that a broken family is going to have some negative consequences whatever, certainly for the dc. And it's pointless to go over why it's a broken family or who is most to blame as it doesn't fix anything.

The reality is that there are now two separate parents and two separate homes and dc unfortunately have to go between them. we'd all rather that didn't happen but that's unfortunately how it is. We might regret choosing our XPs as co-parents but we did, and we and our dc have to live with the consequences.

I'd prefer it if my adored dd didn't have to spend 1:30 hours travelling with me between homes, but for various reasons I can't live nearer to my XP so it's either an hour or so travel or I just become an occasional visitor to her mums.

My XP could argue that it's not in dd's interests to travel so often, and I'd agree to a degree, but it's not an idyllic situation.

MrGin I agree totally.

I am trying to work with a supposedly 50/50 split (although it doesn't quite work out like that) and that wrecks my head tbh. The hardest thing is accepting that the other parent has the absolute right to do absolutely what they like when they have the kids (obviously not if putting in danger or abuse or anything but in terms of who goes where when and to do what, bed times, food, all that jazz)

Without getting too hung up on the christmas issue (don't get me started) I'd say that the distance would mean that less frequent but longer stays were the best for the children. So alt weekends but full ones, eg from Friday to Sun and more time during holidays. Also think about other ways to stay involved - if kids are old enough - Skype, text, the dreaded FB, letters, online games you can play together, keep himself up to date with the school website.

Balia - that's really useful re: staying involved online, i hadn't thought of that.

Christmas is the bitch though isn't it , and everyone wants 'their ' piece of the pie. At this stage the children involved are 4 and 6 but as they get older i guess you have to ask them what they'd prefer.