DD's dad at it again

[PlainClothed]

I am so close to giving up .

DD (11) has an overnight school trip coming up - which coincides with her normal "change over" day (she is 50:50 between me and her Dad, one week at each, swapping on a Friday through school).

She will be leaving for the trip from my house on a Thursday morning, and getting back very late the next evening; dropped at the school which is very close to our house. I said to DD that I was happy for her to come here that night after she gets back and then go to her Dads the next day if she wanted to - she agreed it would be a good idea because her Dad lives 20 minutes drive away, and she will have dirty clothes and other bits from here with her - and she'll be knackered and will want to get into bed ASAP.

I've just emailed her Dad the letter and permission slip and mentioned the idea of DD coming here and he has sent me a snotogram back saying that he has not discussed it with her and does not feel that it is my responsibility to agree to a change in arrangements for a time when DD is in his care.

WTF? All I've done is told DD that she is welcome to come here if it would be easier for her - apparently, I have to reject my DD because it's his time?

This is the latest in a long line of emails that all say the same thing - that he wants to control DD when she is in his care, and I have no right to consider her when she is scheduled to be with him.

Ggggrrrrrr

I can completely see why you made the offer etc.

How would you feel if he had done this to you? He had arranged with dd for her to stay with him for an extra night without discussing it with you first etc?

But I haven't arranged it - I haven't told her that is what is happening - I told her that I would be here if she wanted to. If the locations had been reversed, I probably would have suggested she spend that night with her Dad myself!

Do I really need to run every possibility by him first, like I did when she was a lot younger, before I can discuss anything with her? Or is she old enough now to begin to negotiate with me and her Dad directly about contact in situations like this? If she's not - then how old is old enough? Or does she stick rigidly to the arrangements until she is an adult?

I can see why you said it too.

But......but......... it's his time with dd, and given the two of you don't get on it might have been better to mention it to him before talking to your daughter.

I do kind of agree with him to be honest, it's not your responsibility to agree to a change in arrangements for a time when DD is in his care.

Sorry.

It's been presented like a done deal though and it would get up my nose if it was done to me!

I think with a strained co-parenting relationship like you seem to have 11 is too young to be put in the middle of it.

So poor DD is stuck with a stuck with a strict 50:50 arrangement at the whim of her Dad until she is 16?

He did something similar a few weeks ago about a family party we were both attending - he had to leave early to be back for work, but I was staying, so I contacted him in advance and offered to take DD home with me later and drop her off the next day.

He was pissed off with me because I asked him, and got really shitty with me, and I'd not even mentioned it to DD in that case, because I didn't want to set him up to be the "bad guy".

I had hoped things could be "child led" as DD got older - obviously not; she'll have to abide by her Dads whim. It's not as if it's limited "contact" - she is 50:50, plus lots of extra days for things he arranges to do with her; she's spending three straight weeks with him to go to USA from this weekend.

I understand his pov but... if she's going to be going straight to bed as soon as she gets in then he's hardly missing any time with her is he? You could look at it in a way that you're losing time with your DD too as she'll be on a trip during what should be your time.

He's being a little bit immature.

I agree it's not fair on your dd, and he's being an arse about it.

Give your dd a few more years and when she wants a more fluid arrangement that is the time to back her up and if need be go to court to attain it.

It's been presented like a done deal though and it would get up my nose if it was done to me!

OK, I'm prepared to listen......how should I have presented it differently so that it wasn't "a done deal"?

Neither DD or I considered it a done deal, although I accept Natasha's point that DD may have felt that that she had to say yes she'd stay here she's quick enough to disagree with me at other times though, but how could I have got that across to her Dad?

You should have contacted your DH and offered that arrangement to HIM not to DD. He may have said no thanks I'm perfectly happy to come and get her.
You are basically cutting into his time with her. I know you said you didn't tell her, but by suggesting to her as an option was a bit out of line, I think, as she'll read it as being something you want to happen.

So I see his POV entirely. Things may well get more flexible in the future but for now, especially if relations are strained already, it makes sense to not try and interfere with it.

I can understand why you think he is being unreasonable. He is rejecting your offers of help. I think you just need to leave him to it and stick the to 50:50. It is hardly on the whim of the father if that is the long standing agreement.

I am not sure how this 50:50 share works when your dd is going to be with her father for three weeks. Did you pull him up on that?

It may come across to him that you are interfering with his time.

It's only a 20 minute drive, I'm sure she'll survive & he'll get to spend breakfast etc with her rather than wait for her to come the next day

Perhaps your dd would rather be with you more than 50:50 and he knows it and resents it and constantly looks for reasons to accuse you of manipulating the arrangement?

whyme no I didn't 'pull him up' - I don't see it as 'my time' and 'her dads time'. It is DDs time - and if she has the chance to go on holiday etc, then why would I stop her?

It is obvious that her dad feels differently and he has made it clear that he lives for his time with her - his work schedule, household chores and social life are entirely dictated by 'the schedule'

Maybe that's what worries me; I want to encourage DD to ask for flexibility herself rather than consider that it is written in stone by her Dad - is 11 too young to begin to encourage that?

He sounds like a nightmare.

I would wait until she's a little bit older and sarts wanting to do more stuff with her friends etc and take the lead from her. I would make it clear to her that you are happy with flexibility, swopping nights etc.

any chance of him ever getting a new partner?

random He has! They're engaged

DD adores her SM - she seems to be far more in tune with DD than her Dad is -and she encouraged him to give DD more freedom etc. DD seems to have an independent relationship with her SM that only happens when her Dads not there - things DD mentions/remembers about SM never include her Dad too and vica-versa.

His fiancé is very compliant and seems to go along with a lot though - she certainly comes a distant second to DD in his life!

DDs dad has told me that he doesn't want me to have any direct contact with his partner - I don't have her number/email and any attempt at conversation the few times we've met have been stilted - it's almost as if DDs dad knows that if she and I got our heads together, he'd be outnumbered!

I've spoken to DD and made it clear that I'm happy to be flexible about any arrangements but that her Dad has a say about changes as well. She asked if she could talk to him about changes in the future - I think she's learning how to twist Daddy round her little finger!

LOL well at least she's not afraid to rock the boat with him. I'd leave the SM and your dd to do the work on him over this. The less he thinks it's coming from you the more reasonable he may be.

Good on you for taking on board some of the comments, on the positive side he seems to be a highly committed dad. I guess he wanted to pick up his dd and hear about the trip and then have breakfast together. I suspect terse emails reflect the lack of trust you both have in each other.

I would say 11 is on the cusp but a little young yet to be making those choices.Is she in year 6 or 7? I think secondary school - year 8/9 seems about the right time. In my experience at 11 they don't have the emotional maturity, and by 14 they start to develop that maturity. At 11 they can still feel as if they need to please both parents.

Co parenting is tough but it's worth it. I held back so many, many times and I'm glad to hear that my dd believes I was never negative about her dad (I'm not a saint, just managed to vent to others!). As a result she has grown up respecting the job that we both did as parents. I can't tell you how fantastic that feels. To know that your grown child valued the effort you put in. I wish I could bottle the feeling, it is wonderful.

I guess he wanted to pick up his dd and hear about the trip and then have breakfast together. I suspect terse emails reflect the lack of trust you both have in each other.

I think that's probably true and possibly something else I struggle with - he wants to hear about the trip, so that seems to supersedes whatever might be easier/better for DD. There was an incident a few months ago when he wanted to start finishing work earlier and pick her up from school during his weeks instead of her coming to mine straight after school (which in principle I thought was a good idea) but rather than think about how best to arrange it for DD (give her notice, allow her to tell her friends etc), he got his solicitor to write to me and tell me it was going to happen with immediate effect; never mind that the plans DD had made for the following days or week, things had to change immediately because dad wanted them to

Yes, he is very hands on, and I do appreciate based on some of the posts here that I could be fighting for him to have any contact with DD at all. But equally, I think I have been a lot more reasonable than many would be; I never object to requests for additional contact, I don't call daily or interfere when DD is with him, I have accepted his continued involvement with my family, I don't react to his dictatorial manner and high expectations which he frequently tells me I have failed to live up to, but it seems no matter what I do, it isn't enough. Given what DD has been exposed to (suicide threats, house ransacking etc), I could have sought a CO to limit her contact with him, but I didn't because I don't think she is at risk - but he could do so much better for her if he just put some thought into things before he acted. I guess he's doing his best, just like me though - but when do I decide that his best isn't good enough to have an equal parenting role?

I think the fact that things haven't improved with time is what I find most draining - we have the same conversations over and over again; he still tells me how sad and disappointed he is with me, we've tried mediation several times, we have agreements that fall apart, and it is a continual struggle to co-parent, not least because his expectations of me are far beyond what I am capable of.
If he left DD out of it, I'd just ignore his bluster and stick to the minimum required for practical arrangements - but last time I did that, he dragged DD into the middle of it because I wasn't talking to him so he had no choice and I don't want that to happen again. He considers it insulting and offensive to DD to interact with me in a businesslike way - he wants each others emotions and feelings to be the primary consideration. He won't attend any courses designed for separated parents - because they encourage parents to take the emotion out of the interactions - and he doesn't want that - he wants to know how I feel and what I am thinking about everything!

He's a nightmare, it's him not you.

When is he having these conversations with you and about what?

Just think in 10 years time you won't need to have hardly anything to do with him ever again.

I'm on a roll now, Random - this is very therapeutic - LOL!!

His latest weirdness I posted about a couple of weeks ago - he wants us to get together to submit a joint school transport application to take into account DD's "special circumstances" (which he believes she has because she spends time at two different addresses) and he wants to use the address of the house he has put an offer on and hopes to be living in, not the address he lives at now - and DD won't be changing schools for another 6 months!

He expects explanations about everything different in our house to his; house rules, chores and so forth - and explains, in great detail, why my position is wrong, and how I should be doing it differently. He demands that arrangements DD are made years in advance - he was pressing me to commit to arrangements in the school holidays in 2013 back in October of last year!

This is all by email now as I refuse to engage on the phone with him; but if I ignore his emails, and only reply to the practical aspects of the arrangements - he involves DD and asks her to ask the questions, or pressures her to do something - there was one incident a year after the divorce was finalised when he asked her to inventory all the DVD's we had on our shelf - she got incredibly distressed when I told her to stop!

One of the requests he made in mediation ages ago was that I respond to him within a set time period - so he will type in an email - please reply by so-and-so time/date - and he expects me to acknowledge that I have received his emails as soon as I know that they have arrived even if I say I will get back to him about the content at a later date.

Is it about control? Lack of confidence? I don't know - but it aggrieves me that he seems unable to function as an adult and that needs to be accommodated, but he expects to have equal responsibility for DD

He doesn't seem to understand you're divorced

Possibly controlling, possibly aspergers - ?