Oh no - another curve ball - let DS stay with ExP's NP without ExP?

[useyourloaf]

If you've read my posts before you'll know ExP is pretty difficult. Has been verbally abusive, intimidating, has harrassed me, accused me of neglecting DS, he's a bully, unreasonable, ignorant, is willing to go all the way to get what he wants, has NO respect for me as DS mother or a human being and is living in NP's house/mansion (he has no money/house) where DS (just 3) has stayed for 2 nights a week for the past 10 months or so.

I haven't met NP but have spoken to her on the phone a few times and she has been reasonable. She has DC's of her own and I've no concerns about her care of DS nor of ExP's care of DS.

ExP told me via text this week that he can't do usual 2 nights next week. I didn't reply, but just took it as DS would be with me. This morning, he phones me to tell me that DS will stay one of the two nights with NP and DD's.

He went on to tell me that DS was looking forward to it, to sleeping in his bed, he was very excited about it and I would be usual selfish etc if I didn't cooperate.

Not sure about it. Would be nice for DS I'm sure, but he might want his mum or dad.

I felt sick and shaky after speaking to ExP and it made me realise the effect communication with him has on me because I felt manipulated, bullied and all tongue tied and garbled and was talked over anyway. And....(sorry I go on and on dont I) I don't like that he asks DS what he wants and uses it because although DS can express himself well, I'm not convinced he really understands and I think as adults we should make the decisions in DS's best interests not involve DS directly.

End of rant - God, I could go on for ever. Thanks for reading!

WWYD?

I think it's positive that even if your Ex can't spend the time with your DS he's still responsible for the child on the day's you've agreed. Just as if you were to send your child to a child minder, nursery or school, when the child is with you. Parents are the people responsible for the child rather than the person being 'with' the child. Hence you've already stated "I've no concerns about her care of DS nor of ExP's care of DS." So when it's your ExPs time to be responsible as long as you've got no concerns about welfare let them get on with doing it their way!

I wouldn't leave a child of mine with somebody i've never met and only spoke to on the phone, I need to have met a person face-to-face to establish more of their character and ultimately trust.

I'm sure your ex's partner is a genuine person after all she's allowed your DS to stay in her house for the last 10 months and they must have some sort of relationship but I would just feel uneasy about this situation so I wouldn't allow it to be blunt

The risk of 'not allowing' it, is that next time - he won't tell you.

I've been through this both with DD staying with her SM when her Dads not there and as DSS's Smum when DP was away - it's not easy either way

I think if you had concerns over her care you woud have more justification for denying access. DS is being included as part of their family structure and though exxh is a knob she may be perfectly nice (I'm presuming you are and you were with him!).

They are keeping your ds is a routine and stability for him, which although may feel wrong to you from a child's perspective he has been going to his dad's for the last 10 months he knows this lady and the children, it's what he does on those days. In reality it is no different to you using a childminder your exh has not met.

If this lady is going to be a permenant fixture in your ds's life how would you feel about suggesting a meeting with her for half an hour before the handover, it may help allay some of your fears?

How far away does NP live? Would it be feasible to let DS stay one night only, just to see how he gets on?

You need set clear boundarys.

If he calls and says he can't make it then that's that, if he chops and changes let him unless it's last minute and then tell him sorry you have already made plans. I'd also switch all communication to email so you have something to refer to should you need.

Keep your DS out of it, it's selfish and manipulative and abusive to bring a little child into adult decisions, if your DS decided that nope he never ever wanted to go stay with his father ever again or just wanted to stay with daddy and not the NP, would his father take him seriously and place so much emphasis on what his child wanted?

I'm sorry, such responses as 'not allowing it' make my blood boil, I can't think of many insults greater for a parent than, "your not responible enough to be trusted with the welfare of your own child". Now I understand that yes there are some parents who for whatever reason can't be trusted with the welfare of their children, and they have to see the child supervised or other special arrangements have to be made to ensure that the child is safe. I can't see what in blazes you have to gain from undermining the trust a child has that their parent is always going to be responsible and ensure their happy and safe.

whiteandnerdy I didn't mention "not allowing it". I do trust them to look after DS. I'm not undermining any trust. I want to do what's best for DS.

I think fuzzywuzzy has pinpointed what concerns me is that ExP keeps changing the boundaries and expecting that I will fall in line. First he tells me he can't have usual days and nights at all, now one day and night, and this involves changes in dropping off etc. When I begin working on those 2 days as I will be soon, that just can't happen.

As I mentioned he has been very abusive very recently over a period of months and has got solicitors involved. I've been a quivering bloody wreck because of his behvaiour towards me. Its impossible to reason with him and discuss anything. I have remained reasonable and cooperative but this "reasonableness" can be misconstrued and taken advantage of.

I also agree with fuzzywuzzy about keeping barely 3 year old's voice out of adult decision. It is too emotive.

I am sorry but I'm with whiteandnerdy

I have a fuckwit ex of the first order. He is a knob. He is abusive to me. He is nasty. He has got solicitors involved in ridiculous nonsense.

BUT he is my DC's parent. He has a right to do as he pleases with them when they are with him - as long as they are safe and he has arranged care.

If he's trustworthy enough that there isn't court ordered supervised access then he can do what he likes.

(And I do have threads about my ex - I don't like everything he does it makes me uneasy but at the end of the day I have to suck it up)

..and whiteandnerdy I completely agree that assuming the other parent "not responsible enough to care for the welfare of their child" is incredibly insulting but that' what I've been on the receiving end of for the last couple of months with regard to where DS sleeps, where he lives, when he needs to see a doctor etc etc. That's why I'm angry and confused. I trust him/them but he doesn't extend the same level of respect and trust to me, DS's mother and he doesn't see it, get it or give a shit about it.

Sorry was responding to the posts of 'bakingaddict' and 'NotaDisneyMum', I also agree with making clear boundaries, for both your ExP and for you. You have to have boundaries for youself as well, to say my ExP is a parent too, be able to communicate your concerns to each other but allow each parent to be responsible for the child.

Useyourloaf you sound very very angry at your ex.

Can you distance yourself emotionally from your ex a bit - I found what worked for me was to treat him like a slightly annoying 4 year old

I think if you don't have the sort of relationship where you can be flexible , in a mutually beneficial way, then it's perhaps best to be clear that whatever crops up on his days it's still his responsibility to look after dc whatever form that takes.

If he takes dc when you have an emergency or unexpected invites, it's fair to expect to do the same in return.

At least that way you won't feel bullied or have to discuss it with him.

I can't really see the problem of his DP looking after your dc if she's been spending a lot of time his them. Better that than a childminder.

Opps, that didn't quite make sense ( in bed with man flu )

I meant if you agree it's his responsibility to find childcare on his days then it removes this particular bone of contention.

i think if the routine is established that child goes to dad's house on these days, then he goes, regardless of what arrangements dad makes for care of the child during that time. for a three year old that consistency of knowing that every other weekend he is at dad's house, is important just as in the mother's time, mother makes whatever child care arrangements are needed.

but i can understand given the background, why op is questioning.

the response may be "it is fine you are repsonsible that day and i trust your judgement. just as you trust mine when he is in my care"

so - in a way - by putting this on a "i am ok with it", op can in a way use to state calmly in future : "i trust you to care for ds [and make apporiate childcare arrangeements] when he is with you; i expect the same respect in return" in other words - trust each other and stop questioning.

I think cestlavie's suggestion is a good one. OP, I think this situation is one of those things that is very difficult to negotiate your way through while maintaining a sense of fairness/reasonableness when that sentiment is only going in one direction. There are issues regarding your relationship with your ex, and how it still impacts on you, and that quite rightly affects how you view this. If you can try and think of things in a different way, use it to your advantage in the way cestlavie suggests, then I think that could be a small step for you towards being able to let the abuse/bullying/undermining etc. that your ex subjects you to, simply bounce off you and not be taken in to the point it affects you so much. I'm not actually blaming you for that, as I know how hard it is to get to the point of no longer letting shitty behaviour affect you, but if you can turn this around and make this something that you can use to make the point cestlavie suggests, I think you will start to feel a bit better about how you deal with the shit your ex puts on you. And there is the point NADM makes about your ex simply not telling you what goes on in future if you make this an issue. Rightly or wrongly, the new partner is part of the family set up your DS will now be experiencing, and it's a positive that he's still welcome and part of things irrespective of where your ex is. It also has the potential to give you some structure to work with, allowing you to build your own life/free time and that can help with your self esteem that your ex seems so determined to erode.

I think this is a case of 'pick your battles' and this is one that, given the right approach, doesn't need to descend into an argument. Your ex is being manipulative, asking a 3 yr old what he wants to do, and by telling you he won't be there when your DS is for part of his time, no doubt hoping to get a reaction from you on that. There are legitimate concerns with how your ex approaches matters involving you and your DS, but I think it would be more damaging to take this issue up as being one worth fighting over/arguing about.

Good luck with things.

Thanks so much for your replies.

I promise to stop moaning, ranting etc!

Earlier I decided to text ExP and say it's fine for DS to stay for the one night as he'd asked.

He then text-asked me to take DS to his mothers house later this week for couple of hours as otherwise he wouldn't see DS for something like 10 days. I said I wouldn't go there because I've no car at the moment (true), but he could come to me (has car) and take DS out for a couple of hours.

He's got to think about that

useyourloaf this forum exists so that we can have a moan / rant ! :)

rant away and people will give you often great advice.

I've certainly ranted in the past and recieved excellent advice.

I think you've done a generous thing. And in a fair world he'd see that and reciprocate accordingly. Just make sure he doesn't take the piss.

Best of luck.

thanks MrGin.

I've had some great advice and support too and if it weren't for MNetters offering it I'm not sure where I'd be.