Please - advice needed- this is doing my head in!

[paulwellerfan]

Hi there- i really need some sound advice.

I am currently divorcing my husband on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour because our marriage was abusive and the children were being affected by the continuous conflict within the home. In many ways our life is much clamer now he is not here- the children see their dad every other weekend and midweek for a few hours.
He is a very unreasonable man and still exerts his control over me- sending letters telling me he is going to start paying me loads less per month for the children and emails stating that he cant see the children during the week anymore- he is nasty to me- he doesnt support me with the children- ie- refused to help me the other day when my dd had badly hurt herself and needed to go to a and e- he said the children live with you- you sort it and refused to help.
The long and short of this request is that i need some advice on how to move things forward- he works away alot and has a very busy job- and he will not commit to a regular day each week to see the children- he wants me to be flexible and change our plans each week to suit his work diary- but he does not prioritise his contact with the children - just expects us to make changes that fit in with him. The problem with this i see as twofold- 1) the children need structure and consistency and 2) his continued contact with me is a huge source of stress as he is abusive to me by text, phone or email. This is hindering my recovery and having a direct impact on the children because they are being raised by a very stressed out mummy at the moment.

I have suggested to my solicitor that if he is unable, for whatever reason to commit to a set evening each week, that it is better that he only has them every other weekend. I have consulted with Womens Aid (who were supporting me in the early days), Parentline and my sons Barnadoes Family Support worker- they all agree that the kids need consistency and need to know which night they see their dad - they also agree that i need to take back control and prevent this man from further harassing me and even suggest that i take out a non molestation order to protect myself from further abuse.

My solicitor seems to think that i should afford my ex some flexibility and understand that because of his work that he might need to make changes to his contact- what i am struglling to decide is what is best for the children- in my heart i know that i want them to see their dad and i would never stop that- but i dont want his continued bullying and i dont want the children being messed about each week-

What are your thoughts on this matter? Do i insist that he sticks to the same night each week or do i suggest that the dont see him midweek so at least they know where they stand each week?

I would really welcome any advice and support with this- thank you for reading my long post-- and breathe.....!!!!

Firstly I think you need to find a way to stop him harassing you. I'm sure you'll have been advised to keep any abusive texts and emails. Taking out a non molestation order to protect yourself from further abuse sounds like a a move in the right direction if he can't control himself. You'd obviously have to give some thought to how to distance yourself from hand overs too.

I agree that routine is important for the children especially young ones. But I and my XP have also found that some flexibility can benefit everybody especially the dc.

But it relies on everyone at least trying to get on. If your ex has an axe to grind it's easier said than done. If he can't get to A&E for your dc it doesn't bode too well sadly. And you or your kids can't be expected to be ready at a moments notice to accommodate him and his schedules IMO.

That said, showing some flexibility, within reason, would perhaps inspire him to soften his stance and reciprocate in some way. Perhaps.

But the bottom line is he actually needs to find a work pattern that accommodates his children if he expects to see them regularly in the week.

Thanks for your response MrGin.

You have made some really good points- and i would hope, that in time my ex softens in his approach- however, he has been like this for many years, that is why i am ending the marriage- so maybe pigs will fly first!!!

I would be happy to have flexibility- but he only wants that when it suits him- a classic example is the other day- he came to collect something from the house- it was not a designated day to see the children but they were pleased to see him and obviously wanted to be with him- so i said did he want to perhaps take them up to get a drink for half an hour before bedtime- he glared at me and said in front of them-"it is not my night to have them!".

He took them in the end and sent me an email later saying how dare i put him in that position- and for me never to do that again- his attitude towards me was that i had been manipulative- all i saw was the children really wanting to see him ( i cant invite him in as he can be nasty to me in front of the children) and i made a nice suggestion that he spent a short bit of unplanned time with them.

So- as much as i crave having mature, reasoned discussions about our children and the contact they have with him- unfortunatley communication between us has broken down totally- i will no longer allow myself to be bullied, harassed or abused by this man.

Thanks again for your reply.

i will no longer allow myself to be bullied, harassed or abused by this man

Well good. That's unacceptable behaviour from your XP and needs to be knocked on the head so to speak.

I know this might sound trite given your situation, but through my break up with my XP I knew there had to be a separation between the past and the future for dd's sake. That past issues needed to be put to rest rather than fester on for years. And the focus , of dd's well-being, needed to almost become the mantra that proceeded any conversation.

Obviously as a parent you don't want your child to be unhappy, and finding a way to get on reasonably well with your XP ( or in this case get your XP to curb unacceptable behaviour ) makes life a whole lot easier for everybody in the long run.

It may not be applicable to you, but I suggested to my XP that we each had our uninterrupted say about the past, say ones bit, have a rant, and then try and move on. It did kind of work and was cathartic. There is also a lot of lip biting from both sides I'm sure in my situation.

I guess it's like international negotiations between warring nations. There has to be some negotiation somewhere, and offering a concession ( flexibility ) , can have positive results that go on to benefit everyone. But again it depends on the party/s. It has to be a two way street.

Sometimes I think there should be a guide to negotiating with controlling bullish men, and the psychology of getting them to be reasonable.

Why is he coming to the house when it's not his day to have them? Sounds like it confused the kids, and caused stress all round. I would ask him not to do this, but to phone or email you if he needs to make arrangements.

Can think of two things that might work with the midweek:

Either - stick by your guns that he needs to fit his work plans around them, so that at least, say, 80% of the time he can make the day you set.

OR - He has a regular day, and if he can't make it for some reason he has a right to ask you whether you'd be willing to swap it for a different day. And you have a right to say no, if that doesn't fit with your plans. But if you do this, then he needs to respect your right to say no, without causing stress.

You're absolutely right not to allow yourself to be bullied or harassed by him - I think the trick is working out what circumstances allow this to happen and how you can assert yourself so that things are in place where the opportunities aren't given to him. And at the same time trying to ease the tension in the relationship by reassuring him that he can have reasonable contact with his kids as long as he keeps to whatever arrangements you've set.

dont answer any pohone or text msg unlesss urgent.
stick to email.
doont respond to any abusive comment - jsut be factual etc

presumably he has notice of when he travelling or is it totaly adhoc?

if he gets notice then up to him to email each month with the weeks he will make the regular week day visit and he can suggest alterative days.

if is totally ad hoc then you set a day and if he makes it fine; if he wont make it he lets you know in advance. presume he gets at least 24 hour o notice of travel?
you cant totally dismiss midweek contact because of his work commitments . not his fault f he has to travel....but presumbly he gets notice so can give the Dc and you notice when he cannot make it.

he should not be coming in the house - he stays outside and waits for DC.
if he collecting something -he waits outside.

by having him coming and going its confusing.

or did he take them elsewhere to "take them up to get a drink for half an hour before bedtime" ? bit confusing there .

chil maintenance - go via CSA.
dont respond to any threats - just go to CSA. but it should be sorted in the divorce anyway

Thank you for your responses- i ended up having a near crisis yesterday..

My children thought that their dad was collecting them from school because that is what he had dictated to my solicitor and i agreed. I was under the understanding that my solicitor was advising my ex that this was ok- but infact my solicitor had not managed to get hold of his solicitor- so at 2.20pm i finally managed to get hold of my solicitor who told me that he hadnt sorted it- so i had to text my ex so say it was ok- he then texted back to say her was working away and could not get back at 3.15 to collect the children.

I was just about to get ready to go out as i thought i had the evening till 6.30 when the children were coming home and i had to suddenly run up to school to get them. I was so upset and angry for a number of reasons- my son was upset that daddy hadnt come to get him from school (as i had told him that morning that daddy would collect him from school). Also i might not have been here- i could have gone out for the day as i thought he was getting them from school but most of all, i am annoyed that he made such a massive fuss about it when actually he made no attempt to be here anyway- he assumed that as he hadnt heard from the solicitor that i hadnt agreed to it- i didnt realise i had a choice- it was presented to me as a given.

Feeling abit calmer today- but my stress levels are very high and i dont need this fight and acrimony.

Thanks again for your replies- it really does help to see what other people think- it helps to make an informed decision on such delicate matters.

So he said (via his solicitor) that he would collect them, and then because he'd not heard back he made other plans and left you in the lurch at the last minute?

Sounds like you'd be better off with him just having them at weekends if he can't be a bit more reliable than that in the week.

Having two sets of solicitors involved every time you need to arrange who gets the kids from school is going to get expensive! Would mediation be a good idea, so that you can get direct communication working better?

Purpleroses- thanks for your reply- i agree with you about the midweek contact- that has been my concern all along.

Regarding mediation- i went for my initial consultation but, on the basis of the marriage being abusive and his continued difficult and agressive behaviour since we have separated, i refused to go ahead with it. I totally agree that going through the solicitors is an expensive way of doing things at the moment- and, also, yesterdays experience has worried me. It could have been that my children- dd, 10 and ds,8 were left stranded at school if i had been out for the day assuming he was collecting them.

So it is back to the drawing board again- what i could really do with is a third party- like a family member or friend that can pass on messages, because, quite frankly i want as little contact with him as possible. When he rang me yesterday at 3 oclock to say he wouldnt be back in time to get them from school- i asked him what would he expect me to do if i hadnt be in a position to get them- his reply was-"well you are there- so whats the problem?"- it is not just what he says it is how he says it- he generally shouts and has a very aggressive manner- i have to protect myself from that- especially at the moment when i am feeling quite vulnerable and upset.

So he has the children this weekend and, to be honest, i am looking forward to a little me time- it is then half term next week so i can spend some quality time with the children and hopefully i can come up with a plan for contact that he can commit to.

Thanks again for your reply.

I think you have to engineer things so that you are not relying on this person at all. So no after school collections, for example, and no assumptions that he will take a child to A&E. He is using these things as a way to keep control of you. You're better off organising your life as if he doesn't exist because that way he won't have any scope for either letting you down or being in contact.

Reduce contact to the bare minimum. Let him argue through a solicitor why he should get more.

Cogito - that punishes the children.

OP - just wanted to say you are doing so well, and that it will get easier. Certainly right now the uncertainty and the poor communication is causing problems. Ideally a routine would be better, but I think your sol probably knows that the court would expect some degree of flexibility with arrangements to fit around work.

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute (and without detracting from his abusive behaviour, which you are absolutely right not to tolerate) the examples given here don't actually show someone who is unreliable? He asked to see them/pick them up from school, didn't hear back and assumed he couldn't. Not an unreasonable assumption, surely? And he pops over, probably on his way somewhere else, and then has to tell the kids he can't stay with them for half an hour - maybe he felt set up to be the bad guy?

So - on a practical level - you need to tell him that impromptu visits have the potential to be upsetting for the kids right now so he needs to give you notice if he is intending to 'pop round'. Then I'd set up two days a week that he can see the kids, say Tuesday and Thursday. He can see them either day, but he needs to let you know which day, say by the previous Saturday. Would that be do-able? Then you get some sense of routine, but he gets some flexibility, and the kids get to do after-school activities on a regular basis, too.

Any good?

Your ex sounds similar to mine. He will never change and will constantly move the goal posts in a last desperate attempt to control you.
I have had months of similar and with the benefit of hindsight, I would advise you to do the following in order to deal with a man like this :

a) change solicitors - get recommendations for one who specialises in domestic violence - even if he has never been physically abusive to you, an experienced solicitor will identify and deal with the manipulative, abusive behaviours.
b) Document 'everything' as it happens, when it happens.
c) If you still live in the marital home and he still has a financial claim to it, apply to the courts for an accupancy order which will allow you to enjoy living in your home peacefully.
d)Use copies of abusive emails and texts to apply for an NMO if you feel that is nessecary.
e)Apply to the courts to have a contact order defined. In your situation, I would apply for alternate weekends and half of the holidays with a fixed evening during the week. The onus will be on him to convince the courts that his lack of consistency is in the best interests of the children.
f)Do not engage by email or text other than to make very specific arrangements for the children. If he emails or texts you with anything other than specific arrangements, do not reply.
g)Do not rely on him for anything. Doing so gives him the power to refuse and ergo, to control.

It is so hard to cope with the aftermath of a break up with a man like this but I am finding that with every week that passes, I am getting abit stronger and a bit wiser and learning that not engaging with him is the least traumatic way for me and therefor efor the children. Good luck

Thank you so much for your responses- i am so grateful that you have all taken the time to read my post and cared enough to post some really useful and thought provoking replies.

It is interesting to hear some of you state that i must not rely on him for anything- because that was sort of the conclusion i was reaching myself- it is good to think that it is not just me being overdramatic!! As sad as i feel- this is the situation with him- even when he lived here he wasnt particularly reliable or flexible- so why should i expect that of him now?

I am seriously considering applying for a NMO- but. at this stage i am not going to change my solicitor- i have been seeing him for over a year and he came highly recommended from a friend who had been lin an abusive marriage- so i think i will stick with this one- and maybe stress a little more how abusive things really are.

I am going to give alot of consideration to how i move things forward- and all of your repsonses have been very helpful and have given lots to reflect on- thanks so much.

Really quickly... my DP works o'seas a lot. He is called away frequently sometimes with only a couple of days notice. This is really frustrating for his ex as she has to change her plans to accommodate his work schedule. His ex benefits financially from his job and much as he would love to reduce his travel he feels that it would financially disadvantage the kids (another thread altogether) ...
But because his travel sometimes makes things tough for his ex he does three things:
1.commits to a regular day (Thurs)

1. If at last minute (once every couple of months) he's away on a Thursday he has the children on a Friday/sat/sun - whichever day/night combo works best for the kids and his ex.
2. He lets his ex know where he is going to be as soon as he finds out (for all trips even the non last minute ones - the mother of his kids should be able to contact him and know where he is).

These three things are the least he can do for his girls, if your ex can't do that then I think eow and no mid weeks is completely reasonable.

You have made a very good point- Origamisrose- that your dp makes very good arrangements to see his children despite having quite complex working patterns. My view is that if my ex really wanted to he could plan his working week so that he can commit to seeing the children. The problem is that when he lived here he operated as if he was a single person- he worked hard- yes- i give him that and he earns good money but in terms of engaging with the children and family life- he was not very involved- he never had to consider anything else in his life apart from work- we never came into the equation.

However, now things are different and, yes- me and the kids benefit from his working- albeit not a particularly generous amount, i must add- but i am concerned that he doesnt see that he now needs to commit himself to seeing them during the week.

Also i dont have a clue where he is from one day to the next- he has a mobile- but generally it is switched off after a certain time- so in the event of an emergency, i dont know how i would contact him anyway.

I think my dd would be fine with eow and no midweek contact but my ds-8 misses his dad and so i feel that i owe it to him to try to arrange something so he can see his dad.

Thank you for your reply- it is a very interesting perspective- looking at the situation from a different angle- it sort of confirms that where there is a will, there is a way- that your dp is doing a splendid job of making things work well- so my ex could too, if he really wanted to.

Hello. My DP and his ex had to work together to get to this arrangement. It wasn't all my DP's doing. I would suggest to him that he does those three things (for the benefit of the children). Give him some time to show that he can do it or to come to an alternative before you withdraw the midweek contact. As you say, its important to your DS.