Families need fathers all over the news today

[Sheila]

Bloody Louis de Bernieres also on R4 sounding off about his rights. It all seems so remote - I just wish XP was interested enough to demand contact with DS - usullay it's me naggaing him becuase he sees so little of his son. :(

What a stupid ignorant thing to say.

What a stupid ignorant thing to say. Fact.

disney who is it exactly that believes that RPs are always motivated by the child's best interest?

this.... do you think that assumption is so very horrendous but that it is ok for the assumption that... Women only leave abusive men?
Women only stop bad fathers seeing their children
Only cases of abusive fathers will end up in court
No mother would stop a good father seeing the child in the real world.

All these assumptions have been made on here.

The reality is many parents (mothers or fathers) will make up DV to stop the child having a relationship with the other parent. BUT that doesn't mean that there are also many real issues of DV (some that will never come to light, some that do get reported and protect the child, and some that are not sadly believed and therefore put the child at risk.

It is a sad world sometimes but just because some parents are freckless by not paying maintenance, not seeing children, abusive or letting children down - does not mean that all children should be prevented from seeing and having a full real relationship with both parents when both parents are capable and willing.

spenditwisely goodness me, well if you say it's a fact I bow to you omnipotent observations. < sarcastic emoticon >

Spend it - nothing makes you look more ignorant that making wild comments that are your opinion and not based on fact than putting the word fact after it.

It makes me skim over anything you have written because you clearly can only see your veiwpoint.

BTW children need 2 parents who will act in the childs best interest and make personal sacrifices that will be most benificial to the child even when it is the more difficult option for the adult. The children need not to be used as wepons in the parents games. The children are not messengers or belongings.
When one or both parents can not put child first the child needs the court to act in their best interest to ensure they are able to maintain a full relationship with both parents. The court can only make this possibel if both parents are seen as equal and they are able to therefore make decisions based on the best childs interest.
Currently the mother is seen as more rights so in the instance of the fatehr having the safer and more caring enviroment and the mother having problems the mother would in most instances still get RP and the father would need to go court to get contact. In the opposite sinario the father would still have to go to court for contact but due to his problems may need to build up from supervised contact to prove the child is safe with him.

Latemates:
in the instance of the fatehr having the safer and more caring enviroment and the mother having problems the mother would in most instances still get RP

This is a generalisation and not true. The courts decide in the best interests of the child. The rules proposed today are requesting a time limit of 6 months where there is a dispute. This does not deal with any issues about the court favouring anybody, it puts an arbitrary time limit which does not deal with the cause of the family's problems and certainly won't do men any favour in custody cases.

This is a generalisation and not true

Says the queen of generalization.

Maybe spendit could provide links for these 'facts' she comes up with.

Um, where is the assertion that women only leave abusive men?

You're just making things up now aren't you.

As for women being the only ones to have rights - bullshit. My xp, who has paid no more than about 50 quid in ten years towards the care and support of his children, who has only once made the effort to get on a train to visit them, has the right to go to court tomorrow to gain regular contact and there isn't a court in the land who would refuse him, depite his decade-long financial and emotional abuse of his children.

No rights? Bullshit. No responsibilities more like.

Maybe Latemates could provide some evidence that most allegations of DV are made up.

allegations in the circumstance of relationship breakdown, that should be

The government have rejected their case

Rejected whose case?

Basil - read the thread carefully and you will see that assertion has been made in a post.

You you you. Just because your ex may not pay maintenance, mayn't make effort to see child does not mean all men are the same. Out of interest if you ex paid maintenance and tried to have contact regular and was reliable. Would you allow your child this relationship or would you find some excuse to cut father out of the Childs life?

All rights come with responsibilities thats part of life. I have the right to get paid for the work I do but I have the responsibility to turn up on time and do what my contract says.

"Rejected whose case?"

Apologies, mis read a report which was from last Nov.

Yes I think it is in the same place as your evidence that relationships that break down all have DV involved.

I don't have evidence because that wasn't what I said. For the last time I'll try and be clear for you basil

DV is terrible for any victim. Victims can be male female, young old, with and without disabilities, anyone is a possible victim of DV anyone is a possible abuser. But I like to believe that people are innocent until proven guilty.
Most victims stay quiet for fear of further violence
Some find away to break away through support of wonderful organisations
Some report DV

There are unfortunately many bitter parents out there who will stop at nothing to distort their Childs relationship with the other parent. These bitter parents can be male or female. They do all sorts of terrible things to prevent contact, attempt to alienate the child from the other parent, obstruct access, ask for money in return for allowing the child and parent to see each other, threaten things if they are not going their own way. Many parents like this will use DV threats or make accusations if they feel the other parent has a chance of getting contact rewarded through the courts.

It is the case in many examples I know of, that the RP mother has made enormous effort and expense to arrange contact between her dc and ex p. Iin many cases the father is only interested in one or two of the dc (quite often sons)
It's quite common for the nrp to fail to turn up, leaving the rp with distraught children. Should she keep putting them through it every fortnight? Whose rights is this protecting?

NRP's should be innocent until proven guilty and should be given every support to maintain (or gain) contact with the children.

Why should the really good NRP's be vilified and denied rights just because some are abusive or have shown to be unreliable. The fact is that there are NRP's out there who desperately want access to their children and would provide good, loving parenting to their children but are being denied access.

It's ridiculous that it's any other way to be honest. The parent who leaves is leaving the marriage, not the parenthood. Why should their rights be affected?

I'm not comfortable though with any kind of forced contact, Would I want my kids visiting a father who had effectively been focred into doing so? No, I would not.

Latemates on page 5 ^^ you objected to the word 'potential'. How do you feel this differs from your choice of 'possible'?

Julia,
It is very sad when one parent behaves badly. The situation you describe is a difficult one. However, i advise that the RP keeps NRP weekends free. As in the children are available should the NRP turn up. Maybe without child knowing - such as a quiet weekend doing crafts etc at home. If the NRP arrives the child is told how lovely mummy/daddy is here to see you. If the parent doesn't arrive the child is not aware. A strongly worded letter from a solicitor making NRP aware that you will support contact as detailed and that you would like warning if NRP is planing on accessing this contact. Also highlight the importance of structure and routine and the importance to the child of having both parents involved.

If NRP continues to avoid contact all you can do is be there for the children as best you can. But if contact is obstructed be RP (even know NRP is an idiot) this could be used against RP in the future and child may be told that access was prevented even if that is untrue. Keep all correspondence should the child want to know as an adult why they had little or now contact with other parent as a child

I don't disagree with the contention with mothers often come out worse from divorce/separation. It's impossible to try to legislate where emotions are concerned. However painting all mothers as saints and fathers as feckless twats is not fair or indeed true IMO.

JuliaScurr - it is also (in my experience) quite common for the RP to fail to turn up leaving the NRP with confused and let down children - they're not distraught because over the years they've become used to it.

What they will be is damaged and from what I can glean this whole debate is about preventing children being used as weapons for warring parents.

Well my ex's solicitor sent me a letter before christmas, as he hadnt had contact with our little one since novemberish, it has now been 5 weeks since my solicitor replied regards of supervised contact and a divorce. He has not replied it would seem, so hardly desperate to see his kid!! He doesnt work, so has no excuse regards of cant get to solicitor etc. Does a kid really need a father who doesnt care! I had no dad, cos he dies when i was 15months old, no ones fault, cancer, life is a bitch, but i still had a family!

Sorry Julia, I can't see where I object to you potential word. I didn't understand what point you were making in the post. I don't believe complained about the word potential ??? I have looked back but still can't find It

Personal anecdote is useless in this type of scenario. These types of threads will automatically attract RP's who gave nasty NRP stories, but if I tell you that my only experience is of fathers who had to fight bitter exes for access to their kids (true) would that alter your opinion?

I know of two women who denied access because if an affair, is this right? I know of one who just wanted to play happy families with the new husband, is this right?