Families need fathers all over the news today

[Sheila]

Bloody Louis de Bernieres also on R4 sounding off about his rights. It all seems so remote - I just wish XP was interested enough to demand contact with DS - usullay it's me naggaing him becuase he sees so little of his son. :(

MrGin why is This het up when it doesn't affect her?
God knows. I'm white, so never gave a f... about apartheid. I'm not Syrian, so I don't care that 18 premature babies died there yesterday.

I'm Scottish too to be honest. I just care about human rights. But then, I'm not making it personal and asking what should be done about my circumstances when it's irrelevant.

MrGin, the children speak to him once a week (the frequency is his choice not mine), I do not. The arrangement was originally that he called but I find it works better for us for us to call him so that's what we do. When he moved he was insistent he would visit regularly, but it is 10 months since then and he still hasn't, the last time it was discussed he said he couldn't commit to regular visits due to his responsibilities to his new partner and her children. I sent him copies of their school reports and photographs (which I paid for) and respond to any direct questions he asks me but I no longer actually initiate communication with him because, as I said, he becomes antagonistic and sees it as an opportunity to try and gain control. As I said, my solicitor has twice written to him to open discussions about increased communication with the children and making contact visits but he hasn't responded. His CM payments are small due to his income and his partner's children, I would more than happily forego them if it meant I could give my son the answers he needs, even if the answers aren't the ones I want to give. I don't want him to vanish but I do want him to decide one way or the other what his intentions are and then stick to it. I'd rather that that decision was to visit the children and play a bigger role in their life. You say I have rights, that may be true but my choices here are to stop the limited contact that they have (which I would never do) or allow this situation to continue indefinitely.

To clarify, this is a man who spent his contact time searching my house for evidence that I had a new partner. Who stopped seeing the children when he found it. Who wrote our son a letter saying that the reason he could no longer live with us was that I didn't love him anymore (and later used said letter as an example of his good parenting). Who, as soon as he realised a reconciliation was impossible, moved 400 miles away because he'd met a woman on the internet. Who told our son over the phone that he would be moving away without telling me or explaining it to him properly. His leaving caused our son enormous distress and he went through a period of binge eating at night. He was 7 at the time. And yet I am still desperate for him to visit, or at least tell our son that he isn't going to, because my son loves him and misses him and still can't understand why the Daddy who was such a huge part of his life can't come and visit him or see him on his birthday.

And btw, he spins that same line, that at least he has some contact which puts him above other fathers. It doesn't wash with me, the level of contact is pitiful and he should be filled with shame at his behaviour.

ROFPMSL at bitter. Yes, how very dare I feel strongly about the way my children have been treated by one of their parents. I am not bitter, I am angry and I am frustrated.

I care about this legislation because I feel it's unfair and misleading. Am I only allowed to care about things that affect me or my family?

And the starting point should not be so narrow as to ignore the rights of some children either. If this really is 'all about the kidz' then why start on such a narrow basis? Why select only the rights of children where NRPs are interested? If the rights of the children are paramount, then why exclude some of them? Because, the bottom line is this isn't about the children, it's about some parent's rights. I have no problem with those denied access getting help/support but I'd love some too. And I want my DD's rights recognised as well.

But then, I'm not making it personal and asking what should be done about my circumstances when it's irrelevant

My circumstances are relevent if the argument is this is all about the rights of a child to a relationship with both parents.

Well clearly she is bitter Basil . Sorry but there are a number of posters here who are describing situations that have made them bitter. At face value, understandably. Myself included.

And I think it's a product of your inflexibility in seeing everything through your -ism that makes you interpret an observation as dripping with misogyny and somewhat ironic given the default opinion of men expressed on this thread..

Everyone's against you. The government, the media, men.

You can't personalise this. Just because some of you have had children with not very nice men, it doesn't mean that these fathers are being manipulative or insensitive in demanding access to their children. I think that loving, involved parents are a blessing for children, regardless of what happens between two adults within a relationship.
Surely the men who are not very nice people wouldn't be particularly concerned about seeing their children?

Of course Mr Gin is not a misogynist. He is being made to defend his sex. which is silly.

Have you actually read the thread MrsR?

Of course MrGin is a misogynist.

He calls women bitter if they express disgust when men behave badly.

Only misogynists do that.

I think misogyny is being overused on this thread.
It reminds me of feminists being called man-haters.

You want to see your children-misogynist.

You can't say bitter but you can accuse people of hating women.

Basil. clearly you have no idea.

I've read most of it. I am a feminist, I think I am capable of detecting misogyny and that's not the case here.

You want to see your children-misogynist

What utter bollocks.

So demonstrating (using like, facts and shit) that legislation affects men and women differently is evidence of man-hating. Describing the potential effects on one's own experience is an embittered emotional over-reaction.
But stating that some men are good parents is a coherent argument.

I'm never rude-why is it acceptable to be rude?

ROFL

You couldn't make it up, could you.

Yes MrsR, you're a feminist. So do you not see why MrG's characterisation of a woman who is describing coherently and calmly, the bad behaviour of her xp, as "bitter", is evidence of misogyny?

It's like those ghastly people who say that members of ethnic minorities who notice systemic disadvantage and have some political awareness, have "chips on their shoulder". But they're not racist, oh no, of course not.

"Bitter" is to women as "chips on their shoulder" is to BME people.

And truckulent, your disingenousness is really quite funny, you're always trying to pretend to be the good guy aren't you? Where did anyone say that someone who wants to see their children is a misogynist?

Really, when one looks at the arguments some men use on the interweb, one is hard pressed to see how the hell they have managed to rule the world for so many thousands of years.

Oh no truck you're never rude no, that's the worst thing of all isn't it.

Being deliberately obtuse is pretty rude in my book truck. I am simply, succintly, responding to the twattery of your comment.

Well, maybe you're not alone in noticing the sudden surge in interest in childcare by men who have never shown the slightest interest before
(As a group, as a group - calm down, dear)

[Kind emoticon]

Im disingenuose, obtuse and a twat? (well accused of twattery)

Lawks! I'm all a fluster.

Pedantic, argumentative and annoying I'd go along with.

'And truckulent, your disingenousness is really quite funny, you're always trying to pretend to be the good guy aren't you?'

I don't pretend, what you see (or read) is what you get.

I disagree with youon this one Basil, but I can't be bothered to argue with you becuase I love the way you post and would love to go down the pub with you

Julia- Don't get your comment at all. Feminisn has been great for men, who on the whole are more involved in actively oparenting their children than when I was growing up inthe seventies

Basil, coming to the conclusion that your arguments here equates to you saying 'You want to see your children-misogynist' is being deliberately obtuse IMO. You are being too kind to consider it genuine obtuseness

Truck-pay no heed. People are bold on here (name calling wise) as it's fairly anonymous. Better to just be yourself.