Should I let XP spend some time with DD this weekend or should I take the attitude...he's had his chances, and keep DD with me?

[littlemisssarcastic]

XP has rarely seen DD since she was 6 months old and hardly at all this last year. He has been trying to sort his life out.

On the rare occasions he has managed to see DD, I have tagged along, mainly because he has never shown an interest in seeing DD alone, and because she sees him so rarely, she doesn't really have a relationship with him. I mean, they have fun, but she barely knows him.

XP still harbours a lot of resentment over the time we were together and throws this up in every conversation we have.

Anyway, he has got into a habit of not seeing DD for months, when he is in a relationship, then as soon as he's single, he emerges from wherever he has been and wants to see her again.

I have bent myself into a pretzel shape trying to keep contact going for 3 years, to no avail. He sees her once, then nothing for months. He wont see her, or phone to talk to her, he doesn't skype with her, nothing. He wont even text me to ask how she is, he just makes no effort at all, until he wants to see her again.

I ring him, text him, literally begging him to see her, but he is always unable to, because he's trying to sort his life out. This is his mantra.

It has always been this way because DD misses him, brings him up unexpectedly in conversations, and wants to see him, yet he can't be bothered, although he lies says he misses her.

He is a thoroughly self centred rubbish father, and I would do anything to change him but I can't..I know, I have tried.

Anyhow, he hasn't seen her, or made any sort of contact with me to arrange seeing her since last September now. I have phoned him/texted him and get the usual trying to sort my life out bollocks, and DD has been intermittently moping asking for him since then. DD remembers what we did the last time she saw him and wants to see him and do XYZ again. It is heartbreaking.

I have consistently asked him when he will see DD next, and he constantly moves the goal posts, first it will be 'I don't know, when I have sorted myself out', then he finally said it would be last weekend, then he couldn't do that, so it was going to be this week, during the week, now it is this weekend.

He has a new teenaged girlfriend who has a child by a previous partner, and suddenly, he has agreed to see DD.

Now I have told him DD needs consistency, and he claims he will see her every weekend from now on. I don't believe that for one minute, he has said all of this before. He is insulting to me on the phone and just rants about what a shit mother I am and lists all my previous mistakes, yet wont acknowledge he played any part in anything that has gone wrong. He is a victim through and through.

He wants to pick DD up, and take her out with him alone, which is unheard of for him, for a couple of hours, then return her, but I just know DD wont see him again for another few months again and she will be heartbroken, moping by the window for days on end again, incessantly asking for him again for weeks. (She has a v good memory.)

DD misses him, but is kind of on an even keel again since she hasn't been messed around by his inconsistencies (sp) and I'm not sure I want to rock the boat tbh.

I know people say she'll realise what he's like if he keeps letting her down, but that means she has to get hurt to realise, and I don't want to put her in a situation hoping she will be hurt by him, so she can see what he is like.
I want her to remain innocent and unaware of his royal shittiness for a bit longer.

I don't know whether to take her to meet him and his girlfriend who will probably be hiding round the corner so they can break DD's heart all over again in their quest to play happy families for 2 hours or to say 'You've not sorted your life out, you've shown me no indication that you can offer DD consistent contact, so fuck the fuck off!!'

In all honesty...WWYD?

How old is your DD? Are you able to talk to her frankly about his inconsistency, or is she too young to understand that? My ex isn't too far off being like your ex, but maybe a tad more frequent in terms of contact (every few months). My DD seems OK with this, never asks for him, nor does she pine for him so for me it's not a hard choice to make. I don't have a problem with the infrequent contact now it used to drive me nuts, but I completely understand your POV in this situation. My gut is, let her, but I'd be more keen to try and get her to understand that it's only one visit, it's likely not going to happen again for a long time and if she's OK with that, let her go.

Okaaay I guess my maths isn't too good. Split at 6mths old, tried for 3 years to keep contact going. I'm guessing your DD is almost/about 4? Must learn to not skim past the numbers...

banana DD is 3.5, and just wouldn't understand it was a one off.

It's not even as though XP particularly wants a realtionship with DD. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to care for another human being, so I don't know why he doesn't just disappear like he's threatened to do many times before.

I would let him see her but not out alone. She hasn't seen him lately so I would insist that he visits for a few hours in your home with her and does that for the first two or three visits until he's proven he's more committed this time and your DD is comfortable with him.
I would also make it clear it's his last chance. Coming in and out of a childs like is very damaging just as bad as never having been there at all.

I would also make it clear he speaks to you with respect, any abuse communication it cut. People treat you how you allow them to treat you, stop letting him treat you like shit.

allnightlong I cannot have him in my house, and he is apparently homeless atm.

How have I let him treat me like shit?

yy to allnightlong's suggestion. Offering him the chance to re-connect, but on your terms, would make more sense. If you genuinely feel this isn't really about your DD, but him trying to somehow play at 'happy families' with a new g/f then I would say that isn't a healthy experience for your DD to have.

I think offering contact on your terms, if you are comfortable doing that, is the way to go. But, I totally understand if you feel you are past that stage with your ex, and you know it's not going to lead to anything while disrupting and upsetting your DD.

Actually, reading your further posts littlemiss, if your ex is homeless then maybe tell him that when he does actually 'sort his life out' he can come back once that actually happens and he can start showing some commitment to your DD by arranging contact at a contact centre, for a minimum of 3/4 months to allow him to demonstrate his renewed commitment to your DD, if he ever develops that. If he can't be arsed to do that, then you know that shielding your DD from the hurt he will inevitably cause would be the right thing to do.

Fair enough I can see how you wouldn't like him in your house. How about a local playground that way they could play together but you could keep your distance.

I would agree Banana if he's claiming he couldn't be a constant in her life due to needing to sort himself out then I'm not to sure I would allow contact just yet. But at the same time let him know your really keen for them to have a good relationship and regular contact and want to work towards it.
How about regular phone call maybe one or twice a week at a set time, if he could keep that up it would be a sign he's ready to put the work into being a parent.

Forgot to add if he was to make regular calls I would make it clear that he wasn't to make any mention of meeting up that he just keeps it light and chatty. If your DD asks him when she will see him, be vauge about dates but let her know that he's looking forward to seeing her when he does.

Thanks for the advice so far.

XP would never go to a contact centre. He went without seeing DD for 6 months because he didn't see why he should have to go to a contact centre, and point blank refused. He would rather not see her at all than see her even for a temporary period in a contact centre. He has made this very clear.

Atm, he is saying he will see her every single week from this weekend onwards, but I have heard this all before many many times.

I have taken DD to meet him in a park, and DD enjoyed that a lot, and I have suggested that, but again, he comes back with the same answer 'I can't see DD atm, I am trying to sort my life out, I have nowhere to live/no job/have no money to get to a mutual meeting point etc etc.

I have tried suggesting to him that I will drive DD to wherever he is, and if he has no money, they can go back to the park, and he says he will let me know a convenient day for him, then doesn't contact me.

He would talk to DD on the phone, and has done, but he wont make it a regular thing. He says he has no credit/can't get to a phone/no money. The usual excuses. I have said I will ring him, but he often wont even answer the phone.

I honestly don't know why I am bothering and if it would just be better for DD to go without the feckless tosser in her life completely.

I don't want DD to say I made the wrong decision when she is older. If I stop bothering, and XP changes his mobile phone number, I would honestly have no idea how to contact him.

DD does get upset when he talks to her on the phone. She just wants to see him.
I didn't want her to end up forgetting about him, but if she is going to be constantly disappointed in him, I don't want that either, yet it seems I have very little control over any of it, and all I want is for DD to not be hurt as much as is possible. Obviously XP doesn't care.

In my opinion (and this will be flamed by lots on here, sorry) I'd forget about him. Stop calling him, stop chasing him up and get on with yours and your DD life without him. You sound like a switched on, intelligent woman and he sounds like a prize idiot who won't bring anything but heartache to your DD life. Carrying on with this nonsense is just making the misery longer. If he really wants to see his DD then he will do the chasing so let him. If he threatens court (and threaten is all the usually do) then let him, see if he actually goes through with it. Honestly, you've been put through enough shit by this idiot and you need to stop it. I think that children have a better life when they don't have these god-awful role models in them. Just my opinion, others will disagree, but I speak from experience and my DS is definitely better off not seeing his useless waste of space father and not having him as a role model.

sponge Does your DS pine (for want of a better word) for his father? Or iye, does the pining wear off?

I hate hate hate to see DD so forlorn and upset.

We have been to court twice as it happens. I instigated both court appearances. I took him to court on legal aid, and he would be loathe to take me to court since he would have to pay for it. (Like I said earlier, he is v v rarely in receipt of JSA, and usually works full time.)

Anyhow, the first court appearance was to draw up contact and residency. He asked for 4 days a week contact. I, on the advice of my solicitor, agreed to 3 days a week, 6 hours per day. He stuck to this for approx 12 weeks, while he was able to borrow a car and had someone else's home to take DD to, where someone else helped him look after DD. After he left that situation, he didn't see DD regularly for quite some time, no car anymore and he flitted from place to place, so no consistent home.

Then he met a new g/f and moved in with her, and wanted contact but couldn't do the original 3 days per week. He was messing me about left, right and centre and expected me to drop everything whenever he was ready, using the statement at the bottom of virtually every contact court order, to explain why he was able to see DD whenever he liked.
And other contact as amicably agreed by both parties

We went back to court and he requested overnights, every other weekend, sat am to sun eve. I agreed. He stuck to those for as long as his relationship lasted, so DD saw him regularly for about 9 months, then he split with the g/f and started living with another woman. He was with her for another 9 months and didn't see DD at all during that time. They split, and he saw DD a few times, then met another g/f, and now, he wants to see DD again, but he can't stick to the court order, because he has nowhere suitable to take DD.

Sorry, didn't realise there had already been court orders, which makes my advice a bit less relevant because he is likely to pursue through the courts if you just ignore him for now.

I kicked XP out of my house when DS was 2mo for a whole host of reasons I'm not going to go into now. DS is now 20mo and hardly knows his father. XP sees him roughly once every 3 months when he can be arsed, and always at my house. He hasn't bothered to see him since 9th November and not a card/present/visit at all over Christmas. Mind you, I doubt his other 4 children have seen him either! He's the kind of father any child can do without. So thankfully no, DS doesn't pine for him and that's the way I'm happy to keep it. DS is a very happy and normal boy and I'm doing my damndest to keep it that way.

Good luck littlemiss. I think your DDs pining for her father will wear off over time. But I would stop chasing him and wait for him to do the running as it were.

gather together all the evidence of his past visits(and lack of them) just in case he decides to take it to court again.

for this weekend, I would offer contact at a park/cafe with you so that she can get to know him again. offer to build up contact again over a period of time. you are then fullfilling your part of the bargain by making dd available. if he wants to see dd then he will come, if he just wants too impress the girlfriend then he may be less likely to.

you need good records kep and a log of contact kept so that you can show he dropped contact previously.

to agree without court, as was suggested i would show willing by sending polite email saying as contact has been limited for some months yould propose meeting on xxday in the opark/soft play/library at xx o clock for two hours, and to follow up with regular meetings on xx ddays at xx times at xx place.

you need to show willingness while making it short and sweet so if he drops it again wont be so bad for dd.

Personally I think it would be better for your DD in the long term if all contact was broken and he was out of he life, he will do nothing but damage

Research suggests that it is better for children to know both parents, even if they are (way) less than ideal.

I would certainly not be on the phone/in contact begging him to see her - although I certainly wouldn't hesitate to let him know how much he upsets her by letting her down and therefore what an utter shit he is. Nor would I tolerate any criticism or rants about my parenting cheeky bastard.

However, in this situation I would be seeking to do all I could to minimise the hurt for DD whilst managing contact. Of course he can't go from once in a blue moon to every weekend, how massively unsettling for the child. And given his past record, certainly he has to prove himself.

I'd write a polite letter (keep a copy) saying you have reflected on his proposal carefully and you welcome this new interest in contact with DD, provided that things move forward in a manner that is entirely focussed on her needs. Say that DD is far more aware of what is happening to her and upset by what she percieves as rejection from her father when he does not get in contact for long periods. Also that such a huge change in her life needs to be worke up to, not suddenly imposed on her. In any case, every weekend simply isn't an option as that leaves her with no quality time with Mum.

Then say that contact needs to be regular and routine, and that given the difficulties in the past you suggest...and then what you feel might work, eg start with two phone calls a week, at certain times, followed by a visit, say after a fortnight, for a few hours out at the park. And so on. But here's the thing - if he fucks it up and doesn't ring, then you go back to stage one. And make sure you put in the proviso that the contact increases at DD's pace.

And keep a copy of the letter.

I personally would stop contacting him.
My xh used to see my 2 ds every other Sunday up until 8 years ago then he said "oh as of next week I won't be seeing ds anymore as I can't afford to see them"
And that was that! I was livid at the time but I soon learnt you can't make someone see their kids. And for the couple of years he did have contact he was a PITA, always changing times, days etc...
Basically he's a knob who's missed out on his 2 kids lives.... His choice!!!

Thanks for all the input so far.

I have taken it all on board.

Dee03 How are your DS's now?
I know XP is missing out, although I'm not convinced he has the capacity to feel like he is missing out, but it's DD who misses out because of his choice not to bother.
I almost wish he'd not bothered from the start. DD would never have known him then. Not sure if that's preferable tbh.
I wish I had the satisfaction of knowing XP would realise he'd missed out, but somehow I don't think he'll ever care whether he missed out or not.

My ds are great, they don't remember him being around as they were only 1 and 3 when we split and they were about 3 and 5 when they last saw him.
The plus side about him not being around is I get no grief at all....it's my way all the way. My boys have a stable life and don't really know any different.