what should i do? children loosing dad?

[zoe1234]

hi,
i dont know what to do.
been separated for 5 years plus. the children see their dad everyother weekend. they used to stay all weekend, but then they began to refuse going at all [screaming at me as we were leaving the house when i'd drop them off etc]. in the end, dad and i backed off with the staying over. i have always insisted they go and see their dad even if it's just for the day. it was going ok. he now has another child and another ex partner, who the chdn see. but they rarely spend the night. they wont tell me why, just that they like their own house for sleeping in and my eldest gets cross at me when i ask too much. he is nearly 11.

yesterday, they had the opportunity to stay with him over night and he txtd at 6pm asking if they were going to or not. my son txtd back saying no. the dad then sent me a load of txts saying he was going to give up on them and not see them until they would stay over night with him. he says they wont hear from him until they stay over the night. he was blaming me-saying i have turned them against him etc. my son read some of the txts...i wasnt aware he was txtng as i was busy and my son was playing angry birds on my phone.

i got into a right state. i explained that dad was feeling upset becos they didnt want to stay over and when people are upset they say things they dont mean, that he loves them and it will be ok. however, the children didnt immediately say they would spend nights with him, despite all this. the dad says i should make them/force them to stay over, but despite me packing their bags when they go to him, they always phone and he brings them home, so i feel once they are with him it is beyond my control and i cant make them. isnt that his responsibility...he brings them back to me afterall and he needs to be more persuassive?

i can understand the dad is upset, but i dont know what to do. i find it hard to talk to talk to him as he always blames me for things and we get nowhere. what shall i do?
thanks.

Or, does anyone else have children who don't stay the night with the parent they don't live with? How normal or not is it?

I think the fact that the child seems (at least from the initial post) unable or unwilling to express issues they have (at least on overnight contact with your ex) with either parent would be of most concern to both of you.

I think the ideal would be that the child would be able to express their issues with either parent. However, it soulds like neither you or you ex is able to understand what the problems are. Maybe ask for some professional help.

He's emotionally blackmailing them, and you. In fact it's more than thatr if he's saying he won't see them unless they agree to stay overnight.

Have you thought about mediation?

DS won't see his dad without me there, but he's 3 and his dad has such sporadic contact he doesn't even recognise pictures of him :( so a slightly different situation.

It doesn't sound like forcing them to stay with their dad is going to improve the relationship at all.

Is there some sort of "body" you can go to who could provide mediation support for this issue?

I feel sorry for their father but also suspicious about why they don't want to stay. What is making it so unpleasant for them? eg where do they sleep? Does he drink? Does he stay with them or go out? Does he not get up in the morning? There are loads of questions that could be asked here - maybe not by you though! A mediator might make it easier for the children to express themselves, rather than hurting him or upsetting you.

My son won't stay at his mum's house I don't force him to, I don't see how I could.

I was thinking something like CAMHS could help.

Family mediation services are really good and will invite the kids to have a session independently. It's important for the children not to be caught in between the conflict with parents (like seeing your texts) as this can set up all sorts of feelings negative and guilt towards either parent, which is not fair on children. Unless a parent is abusive or harming them in some way most children generally want to see both parents (and love them both). Good luck, hope you resolve this situation.

TBH sounds like they need counselling or something. Agree with WaN that CAMHS might help with a referral or something- it's not normal for kids to be that upset over contact and really they ought to be going as planned unless there's some serious issue they aren't telling you about.

thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. i have thought about counselling, but when i asked the doc years ago, he said he didnt think is was necessary.

their dad moved about a year ago...about an hours drive away-the kids sight this as a reason-'being so far from home'. he also had a ptnr, things were difficult between them and the kids and her on occassion [her being drunk/shouting at dc and then her and the dad arguing etc] - this used to be a reason. everything seems ok now, they see her and their step sister and often spends days together-but it wasnt that long ago they split.. there are small things like food etc.

about 2 mnths ago their dad said they have to decide in the morning if they want to stay over or not because he doesnt want to keep driving around. then a few months ago they were due to stay with him for two days and they wanted to come home and he brought them back but then said he wouldnt have them the next day as they did not stay over. the dad was cross [feeling upset and rejected i guess] but, they were hurt by his rejection of the next day too. he always says 'if you stay over i will buy... or if you stay over we will do x,y,z. of course these things never appear and my dc say they dont like and it feels pressuring. i do feel sorry for the dad, i understand how it must be painful. however, i have never picked them up / gone running to them when they phone saying they want to come home-i always say it is up to their dad. i feel that he needs to be doing something his end seeing as im not there. i encourage them to go, pack underwear etc for the next day. often they go determined to stay but something then prevents them [or reasons above] when are away and they don't.

My ds 9 keeps refusing to stay at his dads for the 2 nights every other weekend, he only wants to stay for the Saturday night! He says he's bored there, they never do anything and he'd rather be here with me and other 2 dc! ( his dad is now married to my ex bestfriend and her 4 ds are there and also his dd from his exw)...
I've always encouraged him to see his dad even through the verbal abuse etc
But now I'm not making him go if he doesn't want too. He's told his dad why he doesn't want to and the response he got was "well you either come for 2 nights or don't bother coming at all"....hence y my ds is here this weekend when he shouldn't be!!

I had similar with my dd, me and her dad split when she was 3 and when she was younger she used to go 1 night every weekend and things pretty much went okk she didnt want to go the odd weekend but we always worked it out, but a when she was 9ish he got a new partner (had lots before but none long enough to move in as this one did) and my daughter wanted to go less and less and often pretended she was ill to not have to stay the night and eventually she started only going fortnightly and out of the blue when she was 12 she decided she wasnt going any more at all. I think her relationship with her dad just got slowly worse and worse over the 3 years and it was mostly because of his new partner (they married when she was 10) and i tried to talk to him over this period but all he wanted to do was blame me for 'filling her head with crap about him and his new wife' and that i should make her go to his (dd has lots of different issues with her, some serious, some petty but he refuses to discuss, acknowledge or resolve any of them) and he told dd that she either accepted his new wife or he was cutting her out of his life and he hasnt seen her since and she is now 16. I think he now bitterly regrets giving her the ultimatum but its too late because dd feels too hurt and rejected to even discuss her dad anymore.

Ultimatums are not the way to go, kids need to be talked to and more importantly listened too. Your w
ex needs to get to the bottom of why they dont want to go and they need to be able to tell him so that they can come to a compromise.

However my dd says she isnt missing out on anything not having her dad in her life, she has me, she has her wonderful godfather who she can turn to at anytime and is surrounded by my family.

I truly wish things were different cos I am very close to my dad and i love him to bits, but her dad wont listen so we just get on with our life but at times it does make me sad.

I hope your ex will work with you to get to the bottom of this instead of just getting angry.
Oh and when we were going through all of this my dd was offered some counselling via her school, it might be worth asking at their school.

how did your son react to the texts?
you said how you reacted - angry and a state - but not how son reacted? did he shrug or what?

it has bene suggested to me by a spychologist not to sugest "it wil be ok" or to interpret dad (ie dont see "he doesnt mean it" because how do you know that? you cant mind read him) but jsut acknowledge how the DC are feeling. "i understand you feel like that" . because it wont be ok and you have no idea whether he means it or not. maybe he does mean it?

try and let your DC talk more about why it is they dont want to stay over any more. let them tell you.

ifyour ex says "i wont see them" - then fine. his choice. if DC not upset about it then it is fine. if dc offered by him - stay overnight or not see me at all - then he is giving Dc a choice. and let him know well you said not at all or overnights - they chose not at all. your decision to give them that ultimatum.

It sounds like he is completely desparate, TBH. Apart from the purely practical side of it - presumably he has to put his younger child in the car for 2 hours when they decide they are coming home? - I would be very wary of allowing an 11 year old that much power over adults. Particularly as they haven't really explained why. It puts them in the position of having to choose - whilst of course they should be allowed to express their opinion, IMO contact should be agreed between the adults and both adults enforce the decision. You wouldn't want your ex to ring you and say, 'Oh, they've decided they aren't coming home, they won't say why, but I said OK'! If you let them make other major decisions about life then fine, but I think there is some blurring of boundaries (my eldest gets cross at me?!)

Seems like there may at first have been a problem with contact for a specific reason, but that it has been allowed to drift into a bit of a limbo. Could you suggest/organise some mediation? Having a third party could stop things getting heated and help you both get some control back over the situation.

Do your DCs spend nights away from home anywhere else? Sleepovers, with grandparents, etc?

If they're reluctant to do that, it may be just separation from you that they don't like. But if they do that OK, it would suggest something they're not happy with at their Dad's - and somehow you need to get them to tell you what that is.

If they've never really had any chances to do sleepovers, etc maybe that would be a good place to start - might help them to feel OK about being away whilst knowing you were only a short distance away if they stay with local friend.